XUPCer Starting GAY Church in Bakersfield

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by IsolatedSaint

It's not so much that clean shaven in and of itself leads to homosexuality, but making rules that you can't serve in ministry capacity or be a member in good standing in certain churches unless your clean shaven, now that COULD, maybe, possibly open the door for homosexual, effeminate spirits to attack. That's were the danger lies.

Which pentecost you talking about?.....the men during the Azusa street revivals had beards!!!!

BTW a lot of gay men have mustaches and beards too

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Just reading a few of your posts. A few curious of questions.

Are you gay?

If so, is this an excuse you are looking for to bash the upci?

Are you looking for an excuse to validiate your behavior?

The upci is dead to me, however I'm not looking for any reason to bash them. They do a good job of messing things up without my help.

No, you don't actually need a reason do you?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by tv1a

As far as percentages, gays with facial hair is much lower than heterosexuals with facial hair. Of course there may be variances from area to area.

Wow...where did you find that stat?

[George]

Originally Posted by jaxfam6

"manifesting religious demons"

my momma always told me that it takes one to know one. So I would say that if someone is seeing "religious demons" manifested then probably they would be a "relgious demon" themselves.

Personally I agree with DD. This man has family who are, most likely, dealing with his problems. Yes he went on the internet and posted things and made it public but does someones public sin give us the right to continue to rehash it and make the embarassment any more great?

There has been an awful lot of things about homosexuality lately on here. One thing I have noticed in my life is that when someone is continually harping on a subject they most like are dealing with that particular problem themselves. I would hope and pray that is not the case. If it is I pray you get the help you need. I also pray that if you are that no one goes and makes you sins, public or private, open for all of us to discuss.


AND THE UPC BASHING?????? what is up with that? Do you feel so insecure and low yourself that you must attack good people? I am not UPCI but dear God in heaven, why would you make such blanket statments. Your experience with UPC certainly is not everyones.
GROW UP.

IMO, I haven't rehashed anything. I have asked if anyone has read the article in the October 2008 Pentecostal Herald that is probably the best argument to homosexuality I have read and no one has responded about it. I think many of these so-called Pentecostal gay churches have brought a very conniving and deceitful argument in support of their position. If we want to "save" these people from their alternate lifestyles, we must find a better argument than what we have had so far. I believe this new article in the Herald gives a better argument against homosexuality without bashing. It even tells where they can get support and help. If you visit the site www.nlcch.org, you will find a link to a letter that was sent to the UPCI with biblical argument given to support their position. I don't agree, but I can see where they can convince some their lifestyle is ok.

[Weary Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by George

Please understand I have no "bitterness or malice." I have been around several con churches and feel strongly they tend to "hide" their sins more than lib churches. My pastor teaches us to be honest. Be real. If someone has a sin, they confess and the congregation prays for them. Sins are not hidden. This is just from my experiences that I draw this conclusion.

IMO, this new church is Bakersfield is probably being started out of bitterness and retaliation. If the gay man used to attend the very conservative church and feels like that church wronged him, he is probably very bitter and the bitterness has pushed him into being retalitory. If there are still other men in that church with whom he had affairs, he may believe he will get them to come "out-of-the-closet" and come to his church. Don't know, but it is worth considering. The bottom line is it is a very sad situation.

I don't know if I can agree with you that they purposely hide homosexuals in their churches but will concur that there is a problem that hasn't been dealt with. My wildest guess is that a lot of churches are in a place of denial which translate to a mindset of "not in our churches". The question yet remains why so many gays come out of conservative churches.


.

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by Weary Pilgrim

Jax, who is trying to make this man's sins public? What was made public (by him) is a church that HE advertised on the WWW for all to view.

You obviously do not read well do you? or is it that you read what you want to see? I never said you or anyone else made this public. I said just because it has been made public does not give us the right to continue talking about it or him. We only add to the embarassment this man's family is going through.

There is a limit to how far something can go before it becomes OLD. There is also a limit to how far something can go before it is no longer discussing right and wrong and just plain gossip and mean.

[George]

Originally Posted by Weary Pilgrim

I don't know if I can agree with you that they purposely hide homosexuals in their churches but will concur that there is a problem that hasn't been dealt with. My wildest guess is that a lot of churches are in a place of denial which translate to a mindset of "not in our churches". The question yet remains why so many gays come out of conservative churches.


.

It seems some around here think we are trying to bash the guy in Bakersfield and don't understand we not specifically speaking about him but of the seeming "cover up" of such sins in con churches. Maybe there should be a new thread started about the seeming "cover-up". Is it cover-up, denial, pride, fear of a wounded reputation, or what? There must be some kind of answer as to why a pastor would knowingly allow a man who had a homosexual affair to continue in a district position.

I knew a pastor who did not allow women to cut their hair and there were some women in the choir who did cut their hair. The pastor made one lady step down from her position in the choir and allowed the others to stay as long as they wore their hair up. When questioned, the pastor said he sat down the one lady because she had a bad attitude when he confronted her about cutting her hair and the other ladies were sorrowful so he allowed them to stay in the choir. Maybe the pastor of the gay men thought they had good attitudes and allowed them to remain in positions of leadership. Is a sorrowful spirit enough to allow a man who had a homosexual affair to remain in position? Maybe this should all be moved to another thread. IDK

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

So you're rethinking what happens in legitimate pentecostal churches based on what you see happening in homosexual pentecostal "churches"?

Carp...you don't have to re-think the truth because of something you see in a church that's in error.

I would agree with you all things being equal and if I hold true to my traditional view of the Apostolic church. The difficult part is that not all things are equal and I have discovered that the traditional view is not always the correct view.

I am not being relativistic here, but it is kind of like the purification by fire process, that which is not real will be burned away. I don't think we have experienced the burning of the dross just yet and the thought concerned and bothered me all day. I can't get those images out of my head of blatent homosexuals praying through and receiving the HolyGhost in the same manner and tradition as the AUTHENTIC apostolic church.

I hate it. It is like watching the most filthy and disgusting prostitute prancing around in my holy grandmother's wedding dress.

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

I would agree with you all things being equal and if I hold true to my traditional view of the Apostolic church. The difficult part is that not all things are equal and I have discovered that the traditional view is not always the correct view.

I am not being relativistic here, but it is kind of like the purification by fire process, that which is not real will be burned away. I don't think we have experienced the burning of the dross just yet and the thought concerned and bothered me all day. I can't get those images out of my head of blatent homosexuals praying through and receiving the HolyGhost in the same manner and tradition as the AUTHENTIC apostolic church.
I hate it. It is like watching the most filthy and disgusting prostitute prancing around in my holy grandmother's wedding dress.

The thing is Carp are they actually praying through? are they actually receiving the Holy Ghost? Is it really the same manner and tradition as the AUTHENTIC? There are those that "LOOK" to be doing it the same way but the Bible says that one day He is going to say to them "depart from me you workers of iniquity." Don't let it get you that they APPEAR to be doing it the same way because most likely it is not the ORIGINAL but a counterfeit.

[Weary Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by George

It seems some around here think we are trying to bash the guy in Bakersfield and don't understand we not specifically speaking about him but of the seeming "cover up" of such sins in con churches. Maybe there should be a new thread started about the seeming "cover-up". Is it cover-up, denial, pride, fear of a wounded reputation, or what? There must be some kind of answer as to why a pastor would knowingly allow a man who had a homosexual affair to continue in a district position.


I knew a pastor who did not allow women to cut their hair and there were some women in the choir who did cut their hair. The pastor made one lady step down from her position in the choir and allowed the others to stay as long as they wore their hair up. When questioned, the pastor said he sat down the one lady because she had a bad attitude when he confronted her about cutting her hair and the other ladies were sorrowful so he allowed them to stay in the choir. Maybe the pastor of the gay men thought they had good attitudes and allowed them to remain in positions of leadership. Is a sorrowful spirit enough to allow a man who had a homosexual affair to remain in position? Maybe this should all be moved to another thread. IDK

You've brought this to our attention 3 times now. Care to elaborate? Do you know this for sure? This is a pretty serious charge to make against a pastor without the facts to back it up George.
And I cannot imagine a District (especially the WD) allowing a person to stay in a position knowing they are in sin, especially the sin of homosexuality.