Tithe-vs-Paying Your Bills

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

It says one portion of fifty to the levites, that's not 10%. Did not the levites give to the priest?

Yes. The Levites were to give the priests their portion and that is all the Priests were to handle.

And... I didn't pay attention to the numbers... 1 in 50 is 2%. Hmmmmm...

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Yes. The Levites were to give the priests their portion and that is all the Priests were to handle.

And... I didn't pay attention to the numbers... 1 in 50 is 2%. Hmmmmm...

Right, why didn't the levites get 10%? What happened to the tithes?

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Right, why didn't the levites get 10%? What happened to the tithes?

The Levites did get 10% of the tithe that came in.

When the tithe came in the Levites were to take 10% of it or themselves and then give another 10% of it to the priests. The rest went to feed the elderly, widowed etc.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

The Levites did get 10% of the tithe that came in.

When the tithe came in the Levites were to take 10% of it or themselves and then give another 10% of it to the priests. The rest went to feed the elderly, widowed etc.

I was refering to the scriptures I posted. They only got 1/50th of the spoils of war. Unless I'm looking at it wrong.

[Aquila]

NT principles of "Grace Giving" are simple. Every member should know the needs of the church and ministry, and strive to meet those needs. Pledges and free will offerings to provide or suppliment our minister's income and church projects is sufficient. No congregation will allow their minister (servant) to perish. Nor would any congregation allow the church to suffer unnecessarily. Clear financial goals, financial plans, and budgeting is a must. It can happen. There is a church in Dayton Ohio that has well over a 1000 members and doesn't teach tithing. They have a large facility, school, food pantry, clothing closet, and a network of community churches that perform outreach. And they manage it all without demanding the "tithe".

It can be done. It just takes... faith.

[Aquila]

I upped my contributions - Up yours. lol

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Wrong... there was money back then. Research it. The tithe was specifically connected to the Land. Even Jews today don't tithe. Why? First, there isn't a priesthood to tithe to. Second, tithing would only apply to those farmers living within the boarders of Israel.

And what money was that? Only the money for the land in which they lived. Actually Solomon had gold and much wealth but doesn't speak much of the currency of old Israel. Much of the transactions came from gold, jewelry, land deeds, etc. Do you think I haven't studied it? Agriculture was the prime industry where bartering came from in that day. Lambs, sheep, oxen, etc. Not everyone had money in the "bank" or much jewelry or gold. Alot of precious metals were used in royalty and in the army.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Aquila

NT principles of "Grace Giving" are simple. Every member should know the needs of the church and ministry, and strive to meet those needs. Pledges and free will offerings to provide or suppliment our minister's income and church projects is sufficient. No congregation will allow their minister (servant) to perish. Nor would any congregation allow the church to suffer unnecessarily. Clear financial goals, financial plans, and budgeting is a must. It can happen. There is a church in Dayton Ohio that has well over a 1000 members and doesn't teach tithing. They have a large facility, school, food pantry, clothing closet, and a network of community churches that perform outreach. And they manage it all without demanding the "tithe".

It can be done. It just takes... faith.

And there are multitudes of churches that work off the tithe system and do just the same. Most mega churches work off the tithe system. It is proven as well although I like the idea of the Ohio church as well.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

And what money was that? Only the money for the land in which they lived. Actually Solomon had gold and much wealth but doesn't speak much of the currency of old Israel. Much of the transactions came from gold, jewelry, land deeds, etc. Do you think I haven't studied it? Agriculture was the prime industry where bartering came from in that day. Lambs, sheep, oxen, etc. Not everyone had money in the "bank" or much jewelry or gold. Alot of precious metals were used in royalty and in the army.

Yes, in fact, I think you haven't studied it.

You obviously don't know that this argument is neither biblical nor historical. Genesis alone contains money in 32 texts and the word occurs 44 times before the holy tithe is described in Leviticus 27. Gold is in Genesis 2:12. The words jewelry, gold, silver and shekel also appear often from Genesis to Deuteronomy.

Abram was very rich in silver and gold (Gen 13:2); money in the form of silver shekels paid for slaves (Gen 17:12+); Abimelech gave Abraham 1000 pieces of silver (Gen 20:16); Abraham paid 400 pieces of silver for land (Gen 23:9-16); Joseph was sold for silver pieces (Gen 37:28); slaves bought freedom (Lev 25:47-53). Court fines (Ex 21 all; 22 all), sanctuary dues (Ex 30:12+), vows (Lev 27:3-7), poll taxes (Num 3:47+), alcoholic drinks (Deu 14:26) and marriage dowries (Deu 22:29) included money.

Joseph gave Benjamin 300 pieces of silver (Gen 45:22). According to Genesis 47:15-17 food was used for barter only after money had been spent. Banking and usury laws exist in Leviticus even before tithing.

Therefore the argument is false. Yet the holy contents from Leviticus to Luke never include money from non-food products and trades.

Even archeologists can verify that ancient Summarians, Egyptians, and Hittites had "money" long before the time of Abraham and weren't "agricultral bartering" societies.

You obviously haven't studied it.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

And there are multitudes of churches that work off the tithe system and do just the same. Most mega churches work off the tithe system. It is proven as well although I like the idea of the Ohio church as well.

I don't doubt that a church can function off of the tithe system. The question is one of ethics. The NT church didn't function on the tithe system. Historians of ancient church history have proven that time and time again. According to the very best historians and encyclopedias, it took over 500 years before the local church Council of Macon, in the year 585 AD, tried unsuccessfully to enforce tithing on its members and it was not until the year 777 AD that Emperor Charlemagne legally allowed the church to collect tithes. Prior to this "tithing" wasn't practiced by Christianity. In fact... most Christian ministers took a vow of porverty and many even took a vow of celebacy.

The ethical question is... is it ethical for the pastorate to "require" Christian congregants to tithe? The facts clearly state "No", it's not ethical. It boarders on extortion. I know a woman who has been faithful to tithing all her life, and she's always been in fanancial dire straights. While I know very wealthy people in the same church that tithe. All members are REQUIRED to tithe to be considered members in "good standing". This woman loves the choir. So she faithfully tithes and ensures that she does all she can to be in choir. Guess what... this woman makes next to nothing. In comparison to income and cost of living... she gives next to all the spare money she has. She borrows money from family on occasion to pay bills or to get groceries.

That my friends is extortion. And this kind of thing is seen throughout Apostolic Pentecostal churches that teach tithing... even though next to no one will talk about it and pastors ignore it.