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  #91  
Old 03-23-2007, 02:10 AM
Steadfast
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Originally Posted by NLYP View Post
WELL...YABO SHUNDAI...teach Epely the one that says "Judge NOT lest YE be Judged"
Lets start our little discussion there...shall we.

Well, it was an interesting post but didn't come close to answering the question. Additionally, carefully lay that 'judge not that ye be not judged' beside the 'ye shall know them by their fruits' and you pretty much lose that argument.

Again, can ANYBODY in this dispensation be saved outside of obedience to the New Birth as outlined in Acts 2:38? Not our opinions or hopes... we all have those... but according to sound solid scripture can ANYBODY bypass Acts 2:38 for finding salvation.

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  #92  
Old 03-23-2007, 02:13 AM
Steadfast
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By the way, "Judge not that ye be not judged" is Matthew 7:1 and knowing them by their fruits is in the same chapter 15 verses later in Matthew 7:16.
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  #93  
Old 03-23-2007, 08:50 AM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLYP View Post
WELL...YABO SHUNDAI...teach Epely the one that says "Judge NOT lest YE be Judged"
Lets start our little discussion there...shall we.
Dan why is it that YOU have posted in times past you believed only those who had obeyed Acts 2:38 are saved???????????? Have you changed your mind? Someone dying does not change that fact even if it is MY family.
And quoting that passage it might be fair to quote the rest of the passage."For with what judgment ye judge ye shall be judged." YOU and I will be judged by Jesus words Jn. 12:48 and Pauls preaching Rom. 2:16 NOT some adlive made up on the spot judgment. Those "books" opened are the 66 books of your Bible.
AB I had no intent to offend you nor anyone on this forum with my statement I think it was ill-advised and I apologized yet if I act like I think someone is saved outside of what I think the Bible demands I fool no one not even myself. I was making a sincere statement not a cut or slander though it came out that way. I have buried my OWN family who died outside the church and it is sad they died lost. I told my mother I dearly loved goodbye forever she died outside the church. Though I loved her dearly God is NOT going to rewrite the Bible for me. She along with everyone else have choices and how they exercise them will determine eternity for them not my personal feelings.
I realize I mostly stand here alone because most posters on here think it is nearly impossible to be lost belief matters little if anything. However I do believe what I preach. I make no apologies for that.
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  #94  
Old 03-23-2007, 09:12 AM
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Timmy Timmy is offline
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Originally Posted by Steadfast View Post
Okay folks, let's ask the question and leave it open for an answer... Can someone be saved outside of obedience to Acts 2:38?

To me it seems that, at the very least, to be Apostolic you have to obey the Apostles doctrine. What say ye? And sincerely, Atlanta, you really aren't saying much when you say there is more to preach than Acts 2:38. We're not talking about the process of living for God as much as being born again. Can that happen outside of Acts 2:38?
Should we also obey Matthew 28:19?

Matthew 28:19 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
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  #95  
Old 03-23-2007, 09:20 AM
SDG SDG is offline
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If the following scriptures be true ...

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
and

1 Corinthians 12:13

"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Then would you say that a trinitarian, like the Bishop, filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost IS HIS or NOT HIS?

or perhaps .....

Do they have a false Holy Ghost? ....

Someone saying they received a "false" Holy Ghost is in direct contradiction of the scriptures if they are seeking the HG. You can't get a counterfeit if you're seeking the real thing. "How much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Ghost to them that ask Him?"

Should we judge their HG by their tongues?

While tongues is the indeed the physical evidence of the baptsim of the Holy Ghost but according to the bible it is a sign for the unbeliever ....

so, us as believers .... what should we look for ????


MOW said it best in the His or Not His

Quote:
"Check the fruit!" It is not hard to see who has the fruit, tongues or no tongues. I've seen people with more of the fruit of the spirit who didn't speak with tongues than some who boasted of their tongues and even Jesus' name experience.
Quote:
I'll take someone with a "walk" over someone with a "talk" any day of the week.
Quote:
If God is omniscient and is the ONLY one who can baptize someone with Himself, then it would stand to reason that they are completely accepted by Him. To presume otherwise, IMO, is dangerous, ludicrous and just plain not smart.
Quote:
How can a mere man or woman conclude that God gives His spirit to someone whom He has not accepted except by the acceptance of man's interpretation of scripture instead of God's actions. Our interpretation needs to line up with God's actions or we don't correctly understand His word.
If we are going to interpret all of God's Word ... using the whole counsel of the word then ... we need to realize that God is moving, sealing, and baptizing a Bride, His Body unto himself.

If we were to ask the Bishop he would have told us that he obeyed Acts 2:38.
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  #96  
Old 03-23-2007, 09:30 AM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
If the following scriptures be true ...

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

and

1 Corinthians 12:13

"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Then would you say that a trinitarian, like the Bishop, filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost IS HIS or NOT HIS?

or perhaps .....

Do they have a false Holy Ghost? ....

Someone saying they received a "false" Holy Ghost is in direct contradiction of the scriptures if they are seeking the HG. You can't get a counterfeit if you're seeking the real thing. "How much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Ghost to them that ask Him?"

Should we judge their HG by their tongues?

While tongues is the indeed the physical evidence of the baptsim of the Holy Ghost but according to the bible it is a sign for the unbeliever ....

so, us as believers .... what should we look for ????


MOW said it best in the His or Not His









If we are going to interpret all of God's Word ... using the whole counsel of the word then ... we need to realize that God is moving, sealing, and baptizing a Bride, His Body unto himself.

If we were to ask the Bishop he would have told us that he obeyed Acts 2:38.
IF the Bishop had his sins remitted by baptism in Jesus Name (which I seriously doubt) he is guilty for not preaching that message and by influence leading his denomination to continue in the error Bishop Mason probagated thus causing millions to be lost. The POPE would tell you he obeyed Acts 2 :38 so what?? Billy (goat) Graham would say the same thing. OPral Roberts and EVERY false prophet living and dead would probably say the same. Saying it and doing it is two different things.
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  #97  
Old 03-23-2007, 09:35 AM
SDG SDG is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
IF the Bishop had his sins remitted by baptism in Jesus Name (which I seriously doubt) he is guilty for not preaching that message and by influence leading his denomination to continue in the error Bishop Mason probagated thus causing millions to be lost. The POPE would tell you he obeyed Acts 2 :38 so what?? Billy (goat) Graham would say the same thing. OPral Roberts and EVERY false prophet living and dead would probably say the same. Saying it and doing it is two different things.
We could go into the discussion of forgiveness and remission meaing the same thing ... aphesis ... or we could discuss how it's the blood and not water that remits sins ... but why beat that horse ...

Let's discuss the fact that God baptized him with his Holy Spirit and scripture says he's HIS ... and part of the body .... whay say ye, Elder????
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  #98  
Old 03-23-2007, 09:40 AM
SDG SDG is offline
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Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
and

1 Corinthians 12:13

"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.


These same scriptures are used by PAJCers to say why the BAPTISM of the HG is REQUIRED .... for salvation ... yet it seems to only apply to those that interpret scripture as they do .... where is the consisitency???
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  #99  
Old 03-23-2007, 09:40 AM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Should we also obey Matthew 28:19?

Matthew 28:19 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
We obey Matthew 28:19 when we are baptized in the NAME of Jesus Christ.
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  #100  
Old 03-23-2007, 09:41 AM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
We could go into the discussion of forgiveness and remission meaing the same thing ... aphesis ... or we could discuss how it's the blood and not water that remits sins ... but why beat that horse ...

Let's discuss the fact that God baptized him with his Holy Spirit and scripture says he's HIS ... and part of the body .... whay say ye, Elder????
I am NOT saying the good Bishop never recieved the Holy Ghost but if he did he certainly did not follow it. The Holy Ghost would lead a preacher to stand and preach for truth. And after a long ministry and still failing to preach truth?
Sorry I don't believe it. And NO it takes MORE than HGB to put you in the body these folks in Corinth had been water baptized in Jesus Name. The focus here is giving everyone their right place in the body through HGB he is not discussing the plan of salvation rather the position and work in the local body. NO ONE is in the church without baptism in Jesus Name.
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