I have no problem with anyone who views the John 3 verses that way. (natural and spiritual birth) There is plenty in the Word that tells us how important baptism is.
It's been debated a "few" times now on this forum.
I don't personally see why Jesus would say to get into the Kingdom you have to first be born, then you have to be born again.
To me, that's obvious...
This scripture isn't a huge deal to me.
What opened my eyes to this scripture is when I studied baptism. Everywhere else in scripture it is likened unto burial, not birth.
Guess that depends, grew up on the west coast so you figure that part out. Spent the last 5 years in southern Virginia, now in southern Maryland where they are still trying to join the Confederacy, I don't have the heart to tell 'em they lost already.
My experience has been that these guys are the exception (the ones going off the deep end). Usually the ones that do are high profile and there are many other issues involved. I personally don't see the connection. Maybe it’s because I know so many that haven't just tossed it all away.
lets back up. lets not talk about the deep end.
lets talk about guys like you. with you you changed from W/S first or at least the same time as you seperated from seperation (that was funny I couldnt resist)
this is what I am talking about.
I think most of those that now claim a Neo-PCI view are people that jettisoned standards and doctrine either at the same time or one after the other with generally standards going first.
I still suspect we have some very fine folk right here on AFF (people that I call friend and have NO problem fellowshipping with) who left standards, then left doctrine, and now have children who may or may not be going to a Oneness church or even care about the Oneness doctrine.
I offer no judgement. only observation.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
There is no honest Biblical truth-it is all relative!
I heard it before.
It is called New Age & it isn't new at all.
I am in no way New Age. What a person believes to be true is truth...that is fact. They can be wrong like many of you in W/S teaching and yet think they are right
__________________
"If we don't learn to live together we're gonna die alone"
Jack Shephard.
I thought OldPath's second to last post was really good. JT may disagree, but I thought it had some substance to it.
In all the Scripture I see quoted here, I've still yet to see Mark 16:16- my favorite (and my church of Christ friend's favorite) baptism verse. Actually, when it comes to hearing about the need for baptism I enjoy listening to coCers explain it, they're all organized, rational and systematic, there's going to be a lesson titled, "What's the big deal about baptism?" at the coC Gospel Meeting next week- I might go. Anyways, we're not the only ones that understand baptism as necessary for salvation, and even without John 3:5 I can't understand how anyone can call themselves a Christian without being baptized, and as for my experience in churches that didn't teach baptism for salvation (AOG), the biggest thing that bothered me was how baptisms were all done in the summer or something like that, it really bugged me. I know a Midwest Pilgrim Holiness pastor who has pastored for 10 years and has STILL not been baptized... HE'S AFRAID OF WATER! Pul---eezee! And then when you see JESUS' name baptism in Scripture, you've got that clearly as the command, that you baptize in JESUS' name, all the other arguments are futile.
As for "leaving standards" and the relationship to WS salvation. I am fully persuaded of WS but not of all the standards (or way they're presented), and myself and my assembly have a different view of 1 Cor. 11 than most OP assemblies, but we're still very much WS. I can think of two preachers in Maine alone who are WS preachers but don't teach all the standards. So, does getting rid of WS also cause one to lose standards? Or does further Scriptural study cause one to keep WS and lose some standards? Perhaps to the first question, a resounding YES to the latter.
GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex
And I do...
__________________
"If we don't learn to live together we're gonna die alone"
Jack Shephard.
I am in no way New Age. What a person believes to be true is truth...that is fact. They can be wrong like many of you in W/S teaching and yet think they are right
I think you're playing at words... or at least I hope you are.
Sure it's a fact they believe an error, to the damnation of their own souls.. but it is not a fact that they believe truth! (Those who do not, that is)
__________________ Mrs. LPW
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
I think you're playing at words... or at least I hope you are.
Sure it's a fact they believe an error, to the damnation of their own souls.. but it is not a fact that they believe truth! (Those who do not, that is)
Truth is truth no matter what, but if you believe something you believe it is truth as do I. Truth is a constant not matter what everyone believes. I do not believe W/S doctrine is not the correct scriptural way to view what we do unto God.
__________________
"If we don't learn to live together we're gonna die alone"
Jack Shephard.
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