Does no one accept responsibility any more?

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

My dad walked out when I was two years old leaving me and my mother alone. My grandparents wouldn't take us in. They were too "righteous" for that. So my mom got on assistance. My mother got on welfare temporarily so she could be home and raise me. When I got into Middle School she got a job. The job wasn't enough to pay the bills and we were sinking into massive debt...and all we had was a cheap apartment. My mom took on two jobs and wasn't ever home. We never went to church during this period because she had to work. I soon got mixed up in drugs and the street scene. My mom chose to get back on welfare so she could parent me and help me get my life together.

I'd like to thank you fine tax payers...no telling where I'd be if my mother would have had nowhere to turn.

What a great Mom Grasshopper.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

Amen. I'd still be on drugs and God knows where had she not had somewhere to turn.

Those people who talk nothing but money, money, money, work, work, work,..even if you have to abandon your family to make it...are only focused on their money and are neglecting the human toll. It was a nightmare when mom worked two jobs. I wouldn't even go to school half the time. I dropped out when 16 and when she got back on welfare she re-enrolled me. She was home when I got home and she rode me to get my homework done. She was there for me...oh...and while on welfare...she had time to start taking me to church and I'm saved today.

I remember being upset that we were on welfare and my mother said that we were "gleaners" and if dedicated myself I could make something of my life. Thank God I did.

The difference is in the attitude. With your mom's attitude of being a "gleaner" just like Ruth did in the Bible, she used it to make a bad situation better.

BUT, she didn't make it a lifestyle and teach you to rely on the system. She encouraged you to do better and because of her attitude - being reliant on the system stopped with her.

(as tstew mentioned above)

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

Amen. I'd still be on drugs and God knows where had she not had somewhere to turn.

Those people who talk nothing but money, money, money, work, work, work,..even if you have to abandon your family to make it...are only focused on their money and are neglecting the human toll. It was a nightmare when mom worked two jobs. I wouldn't even go to school half the time. I dropped out when 16 and when she got back on welfare she re-enrolled me. She was home when I got home and she rode me to get my homework done. She was there for me...oh...and while on welfare...she had time to start taking me to church and I'm saved today.

I remember being upset that we were on welfare and my mother said that we were "gleaners" and if dedicated myself I could make something of my life. Thank God I did.

I don't believe I have saw anyone here that stated we should totally do away with the welfare system. Jesus was plain when he said, "The poor you have with you always". But that does not negate the responsibility of individuals to go and do everything they can to be productive citizens.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Were they guaranteed a future loan, or did they simply presume upon the future. Again, it all goes back to personal responsibility. No one held a gun to their head and made them sign. They made the final choice in the matter. I am not saying that they do not deserve any help getting out of their fix, and I am not saying there were not some cases of predatory lending taking place. But if I pay more money for something than it is worth, who ripped me off.

The whole point of the thread is that people need to learn to take personal responsibility for their actions, and do whatever it takes to deal with their choices.

Matt, let's say that you are a married man in your late 20s early 30s with 2 children. You've got a decent job, nice car, good credit rating. You want to buy a house but can't seem to be able to save up the 20% it takes for the down payment for whatever reason. You start seeing signs on house that say "Buy me with no money down." You look into it and discover that there are companies willing to loan 100% of a home's value using two loans. 80% goes thru an adjustable rate mortgage, and the remaining 20% is thru a home equity loan. The payment on both of these loans is equal to or just a little bit more than you have been paying for rent. The person selling you on this loan explains that the big loan has an adjustable rate that will go up in, say, 5 years. The smaller loan is an interest only loan for the first 10 years then it amoritizes for the remaining 10 years. You are a little nervous, partly because it all sounds too good to be true and you are a little worried about making that higher payment when the rate goes up on the big loan. You express your concern to the person selling you this loan. He explains that these types of loans are really not designed for someone to keep, but more to make it possible for people to become homeowners. He explains that, by the time you reach the point where the payment would go up that you'd have enough of a paying history to qualify for a standard fixed rate mortgage. He also explains that the value of your property will have gone up by then, which will also make it possible to refinance the whole package.

You do some research on property values in the area and find out that they have, in fact, been going up steadily over the last 20-30 years. You check into the type of loan you are thinking about getting and find out that many people have already done exactly what this loan officer has said you could do. So, wanting to be a good father that provides a good home for your family, you go for it. Next thing you know you are a proud new homeowner and life is better than it's ever been. You're thanking God for making it possible for you buy your first house. No more renting for you.

Five years go by and it's time for your rate to go up. In the last year or so there has been some trouble in the stock market. Globally, money gets tight. Oil prices are skyrocketing. Banks are having trouble borrowing money. Credit has gotten tougher to get. You look into refinancing this ARM and HELOC into one fixed rate mortgage. You find out that, because of what has been going on in the stock market banks have made it extremely difficult for people to get fixed rate mortgages. Because of what's been going on, hundreds of thousands of home owners all across America have not been able to refinance these loans, lost their homes, and the real estate market is suffering badly because of it. Then you find out that your home's value has dropped because of everything that's been going on. You find out that you're stuck with a loan payment that is about to double or even triple, because no one wants to loan you the money to refinance.

It's not that you don't pay your bills. It's not that you're a bad person. It's that financial conditions throughout the country have deteriorated to the point that, what was supposed to be a God-send for people like you, has turned out to be a huge nightmare. When it's all said and done, you've lost the home you thought you were going to live in for the rest of your life, your credit rating is shot because you couldn't afford the triple payments, your family is embarassed about having to go back to renting, and you are left asking yourself why all this had to happen.

Why did it happen? Because the banking industry never should have started offering these types of loans in the first place. They thought the good times of the 90s were going to last forever. They figured they could make a bunch of money off what were essentially interest only loans. They didn't plan on the stock market going south. They didn't plan on having issues with brokerage houses going bankrupt. They rolled the dice with the housing market and lost, plain and simple.

I hear what you guys are saying about people being responsible for the actions. If it's true for them then it's true for the banks and mortgage brokers that dreamed up all these loans that were going to make it possible for so many to live the American dream of home ownership. They did not present these loans to consumers as risky. For that they are to blame.

[faithfulinlittle777]

i have 3 hrs on my doctorate...i work in a fast food restaurant...i mispell a lot...guess bro ga was right when he said social superiority is a weapon of the devil...no im not capitalizing...

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

I have no doubt some people have a rough time. But that doesn't mean the government should bail you out. I remember my wife crying not too many months ago because the only thing we had to send the kids for lunch was a stale hamburger bun with peanut butter on it. That sucks. But it still doesn't mean the government should take from someone else to give to me.

The concept of government helping the poor is found in the Bible, both in the OT and the NT. What do you think the tithes were used for in the OT?

[faithfulinlittle777]

oh yeah n my little bro was on the governors staff n now kennedys n yes there are some of us left who work hard go to church and forgive those who try to look down on us

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Rico

Matt, let's say that you are a married man in your late 20s early 30s with 2 children. You've got a decent job, nice car, good credit rating. You want to buy a house but can't seem to be able to save up the 20% it takes for the down payment for whatever reason. You start seeing signs on house that say "Buy me with no money down." You look into it and discover that there are companies willing to loan 100% of a home's value using two loans. 80% goes thru an adjustable rate mortgage, and the remaining 20% is thru a home equity loan. The payment on both of these loans is equal to or just a little bit more than you have been paying for rent. The person selling you on this loan explains that the big loan has an adjustable rate that will go up in, say, 5 years. The smaller loan is an interest only loan for the first 10 years then it amoritizes for the remaining 10 years. You are a little nervous, partly because it all sounds too good to be true and you are a little worried about making that higher payment when the rate goes up on the big loan. You express your concern to the person selling you this loan. He explains that these types of loans are really not designed for someone to keep, but more to make it possible for people to become homeowners. He explains that, by the time you reach the point where the payment would go up that you'd have enough of a paying history to qualify for a standard fixed rate mortgage. He also explains that the value of your property will have gone up by then, which will also make it possible to refinance the whole package.

You do some research on property values in the area and find out that they have, in fact, been going up steadily over the last 20-30 years. You check into the type of loan you are thinking about getting and find out that many people have already done exactly what this loan officer has said you could do. So, wanting to be a good father that provides a good home for your family, you go for it. Next thing you know you are a proud new homeowner and life is better than it's ever been. You're thanking God for making it possible for you buy your first house. No more renting for you.

Five years go by and it's time for your rate to go up. In the last year or so there has been some trouble in the stock market. Globally, money gets tight. Oil prices are skyrocketing. Banks are having trouble borrowing money. Credit has gotten tougher to get. You look into refinancing this ARM and HELOC into one fixed rate mortgage. You find out that, because of what has been going on in the stock market banks have made it extremely difficult for people to get fixed rate mortgages. Because of what's been going on, hundreds of thousands of home owners all across America have not been able to refinance these loans, lost their homes, and the real estate market is suffering badly because of it. Then you find out that your home's value has dropped because of everything that's been going on. You find out that you're stuck with a loan payment that is about to double or even triple, because no one wants to loan you the money to refinance.

It's not that you don't pay your bills. It's not that you're a bad person. It's that financial conditions throughout the country have deteriorated to the point that, what was supposed to be a God-send for people like you, has turned out to be a huge nightmare. When it's all said and done, you've lost the home you thought you were going to live in for the rest of your life, your credit rating is shot because you couldn't afford the triple payments, your family is embarassed about having to go back to renting, and you are left asking yourself why all this had to happen.

Why did it happen? Because the banking industry never should have started offering these types of loans in the first place. They thought the good times of the 90s were going to last forever. They figured they could make a bunch of money off what were essentially interest only loans. They didn't plan on the stock market going south. They didn't plan on having issues with brokerage houses going bankrupt. They rolled the dice with the housing market and lost, plain and simple.

I hear what you guys are saying about people being responsible for the actions. If it's true for them then it's true for the banks and mortgage brokers that dreamed up all these loans that were going to make it possible for so many to live the American dream of home ownership. They did not present these loans to consumers as risky. For that they are to blame.

Another side to the story!

Well put Rico!

BTW, weren't you going to do some writing, possibly Bible Studies?
You have the flair for writing.

[faithfulinlittle777]

the government isnt supposed to help you, your supposed to help yourself....n talking to God about this is not such a bad idea

[Rico]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Exactly!! I have just been spending many hours on a backhoe because we can't afford to pay someone else to do the work that needs done at our house. I don't have heavy equipment training, but if someone else can do it so can I. It is called industriousness. The bible states, "Consider the ant...." That is personal responsibility. If I lost my legs tomorrow, I could still learn to drive. I could still preach, visit etc. Maybe not ride a motorcycle, but I'm sure that I could make it......primarily because I'm sure I can with God's help.

I rented a small backhoe once. Had some issues with a septic line and had to dig it up. I wasn't thinking while I was digging and ended up almost tipping the backhoe over! I can laugh about it now, but I thought for sure I was gonna meet my maker when the back tire went right into the ditch I had been digging! Thank God there was a huge tree in the yard and that I had enough chains to hook the bucket too so I could pull the backhoe out.