Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't so.

[bkstokes]

As a side note, about 9 yrs ago I heard Randy Keyes preach along these lines (at a leadershipconference), except he used the argument to state that we didn't give enough because we didn't believe enough the 3 step message.

Similar argument how our actions spoke different then our words. People were shouting then.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by bkstokes

My purpose in my statements was not provoke division or strife. Nor do I think that my statements represent anyone else beside me. I was simply commenting on how the actions of the 3 steppers that I know personally for many years speak different from what they say.

Without calling anyone persopnally on the floor (I will put this out there because I am many years removed from the UPC and not many people know me know), I was an active minister in one of the largest and most influencial UPC churches that there was and it still is. My pastor at the time strongly preached 3 step doctrine ( and still does) yet he and his family lived lifestyles that few in our blessed country could afford to live. Neverhtheless, he was always one of the first to preach missions and missions giving at the big conferences. THE MAIN POINT IS THAT THE ACTIONS OF PEOPLE SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. IF ONLY 3 STEPPERS ARE SAVED HOW CAN SOMEONE JUSTIFY THIS?

If you will also notice, I pointed out that my argument taken to its end is a reflection on all of our lack of effort.

Justify it to whom? Other people, or God?

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by bkstokes

As a side note, about 9 yrs ago I heard Randy Keyes preach along these lines (at a leadershipconference), except he used the argument to state that we didn't give enough because we didn't believe enough the 3 step message.

Similar argument how our actions spoke different then our words. People were shouting then.

I don't know who Randy Keyes is. My salvation does not come from men nor what they believe, it comes from Jesus. He is the only one I have to justify my life to.

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by cneasttx

And he preached condemnation of the deaf/mute? Or that anyone that didn't SPEAK in tongues after receving the Holy Ghost, and if the baptizer was mute they were lost? And he preached, but didn't give to missions, and lived a lavish lifestyle? How many years ago was this?

What I am saying is that -- deep down inside he didn't believe that only 3 steppers were saved. When my grandmother died, who was a woman of prayer and had dreams and visions of God (but she had not gone through all of the 3 steps). This man turned to my mother and stated we know that she is in a better place now.

In the end, I believe that many 3 steppers profess to be so, but deep down inside they are 1 steppers. Because I being a one stepper don't push for someone to only place faith in Jesus. I command them to buried with Christ and then I pray with them to receive the Holy Ghost. Nevertheless, I do not judge those who have not done this.

Let the 3 steppers call it the light doctrine. But in the end, the are very similar to us.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by cneasttx

I don't know who Randy Keyes is. My salvation does not come from men nor what they believe, it comes from Jesus. He is the only one I have to justify my life to.

I am not a three stepper, nor do I live a lavish lifestyle. And the last Cadillac I owned was used in one of those thingys where cars were ran into other's on purpose, and then for target practice.

But I have seen some one steppers who live just like you are saying some three steppers live, but it's not the same even though they condemn people who don't believe what they do right?

[Sister Alvear]

I wonder what Jesus thinks about the lavish lifestyles He finds in Pentecost? Of couse when something is said people mention rich Solomon...but he did not have the order to go into all the world...

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by bkstokes

What I am saying is that -- deep down inside he didn't believe that only 3 steppers were saved. When my grandmother died, who was a woman of prayer and had dreams and visions of God (but she had not gone through all of the 3 steps). This man turned to my mother and stated we know that she is in a better place now.

In the end, I believe that many 3 steppers profess to be so, but deep down inside they are 1 steppers. Because I being a one stepper don't push for someone to only place faith in Jesus. I command them to buried with Christ and then I pray with them to receive the Holy Ghost. Nevertheless, I do not judge those who have not done this.

Let the 3 steppers call it the light doctrine. But in the end, the are very similar to us.

Okay, got it. I am kinda slow sometimes, but don't tell anyone else. I am not a stepper kind of person. Took me a long time after being on AFF to figure some of it out.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I wonder what Jesus thinks about the lavish lifestyles He finds in Pentecost? Of couse when something is said people mention rich Solomon...but he did not have the order to go into all the world...

I think we should start a petition for all wealthy apostolics to sell all they have and give to y'all down in Brazil Sister Alvear. Oh, I got an email from Brother Micheal, you must be so proud of your sons, they are so sweet. It really blesses me to hear from them. Love y'all much, and you are in my prayers as always. Do y'all have mailing lists, where you send things to people about your missions? If so I will email you my address and would like to be added to it.

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by jaxfam6

What is the saying about it is "best to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"? that is what came to my mind when I saw that post.
I was shocked to such a thing. I would equally be shocked to see it the other way around also.

I would be careful of even an insinuation of another being a fool. It is written, "the fool has said, in his heart there is no God." The Word of God defines an atheist as a fool and no one else. Brother, I am not an atheist. I am a fellow believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. I have been baptized in his name and fill with His glorious Spirit. It is also an Ad hominem fallacy to critcize the person of an argument and not directly talk about the argument itself.

[True Believer]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Rarely is a deaf person mute...that is an ancient term...used about 35 years ago.

True, we have a lady that was born deaf and when she signs she talks also. She is very monotone but she is definitely not mute.