OK, stop and think about what happened on the Day of Pentecost as recorded in Acts chapter 2.
There were originally over 500 believers who saw Jesus (1 Corinthians 15:6). 120 of these believers (what's that, about one fourth?) were waiting in Jerusalem for an empowering of the Spirit that Jesus referred to as a baptism in the Spirit. As these 120 were gathered together (probably in the Temple) about 9 a.m. the Holy Spirit fell upon them and they began to speak with tongues. This was not their salvation experience. They were already followers of Jesus and had previously ministered in His name/authority. This was an added clothing/enduement of power to do His work.
A crowd gathered and some heard these Spirit filled disciples speaking in tongues and some actually understood what was being said.
Peter stood up and explained that this was a fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecy of Joel that God was now pouring out His Spirit upon all. He continued and preached the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. He concluded with what is recorded in Acts 2:38-40. He told those hearing him:
1. Repent, turn from sin to God, call on Him for mercy, (in other words, get saved)
2. Then follow up that salvation/deliverance experience with baptism/mikveh
3. Then, you also can receive this same enduement or empowering of the Holy Spirit, this promise of the Father, that you have seen demonstrated earlier today.
About 3000 joined themselves to them by believing in Jesus and being baptized.
How many of these 3000 also received the Holy Ghost Baptism? We don't know. It's not recorded. We assume some of them did at that time or later but we don't know that for sure. But, however many of the 3000 who did not receive the Holy Ghost baptism were just as saved as the 380 of the original 500 believers who did not receive the Holy Ghost Baptism.
The agonizing tarrying that we've imposed on people is based on a couple of premises. One is that because 120 people waited/tarried for 10 days to receive the Holy Ghost Baptism that was some kind of a pattern for us today. In the program of God, He had planned to pour out His Spirit universally on Pentecost AD 30. That's when He did it. They could not have received the experience in 3 or 4 or 9 days because God planned it for Pentecost. We've also equated that experience of Pentecost with salvation while it was separate from and subsequent to the salvation of those 120 people. The Holy Ghost wasn't poured out on 120 sinners to save them but was poured out on 120 believers to empower them. After Pentecost if/when people were filled with or baptized in the Spirit, it ordinarily happened by just an outpouring or by hands laid upon them -not after protracted begging, pleading, worshiping, and praising.
and you guys say us traditional OPs twist things up....
LOL, Love ya Sam but that isnt exactly how i see it.
1. Peter preached the gospel.
2. 3000 at least heard about the death buriel and resurecting of Jesus
3. they got pricked in their hearts
4. they asked what they must do.
5. Peter told them (acts 2:38)
at least that is what i find in the 17 or so versions I have read.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
and you guys say us traditional OPs twist things up....
LOL, Love ya Sam but that isnt exactly how i see it.
1. Peter preached the gospel.
2. 3000 at least heard about the death buriel and resurecting of Jesus
3. they got pricked in their hearts
4. they asked what they must do.
5. Peter told them (acts 2:38)
at least that is what i find in the 17 or so versions I have read.
I am still trying to figure out who is more dangerous to Christianity - Sam or an atheist.
So, the question the multitudes asked in Acts 2:37, "... what shall we do?" was not, "... what shall we do [to be saved]?", as so many like to add to the verse. Rather, it was more in line with, "... what shall we do [now]?" From scripture they already knew what to do to be 'saved'. From living by faith (Habakkuk 2:4) to the circumcision of the heart (Deuteronomy 10:16; 30:6).
The feast of Shavuot (Pentecost) is the anniversary day (6th of Sivan) when God addressed the entire nation of Israel and gave them the 'Law'. It was also this same day that God choose to shed abroad His Holy Spirit with the advent period of Christ.
However, the disciples had their names written in the book of life (written in heaven) prior to the death of Jesus (Luke 10:20), and a number of the disciples also received the holy Spirit prior to the day of Pentecost (John 20:19-24), which, from the evidence of Pentecost, those disciple being in attendance received the 'authority' of the Spirit directly from Jesus, but not yet the ability to exercise the 'power' of the Spirit on their own. Compare the universal authority demonstrated in (Acts 3:6) and the 'conditional' authority demonstrated in Luke 9:1-6 and Luke 10:1-17)
Another common doctrine that gets hit, is that on the day of Pentecost the disciple spoke in 'unknown' tongues. Taken by many to include speaking in a prayer language or in some heavenly language. Not so. All recorded languages in Acts 2 were of known languages. While the speakers may not have 'known' (understood) the languages they spoke, others did. The terms 'unknown tongues' and 'unknown language' do not exist in the original biblical texts. Actually, the Greek word for 'unknown' is not even used in the New Testament texts.
When religious traditions takes presence over scripture, we are free to make of scripture whatever we desire. Well, we are free to do what we desire until we have to face God and explain, by what authority we rewrote His word and set our own doctrines above His. And, to think that we often judge harshly the traditions of the Pharisees and Scribes. /sigh/
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It makes no difference whether you study in the holy language, or in Arabic, or Aramaic [or in Greek or even in English]; it matters only whether it is done with understanding. - Moshe Maimonides.
Acts 2:38 is common restatement of the historical Jewish cultural and religious practices, with the addition of the receiving of the Holy Ghost, as promised in scripture.
One of the obvious doctrines what we so often over look is this one: The Apostles' doctrine is nothing more nor anything less than the sum total doctrines that Jesus Christ taught. Therefore, if one does not know, understand and practice the doctrines (including the commandments) of Christ, that person is not a follower of the Apostles' doctrines, much less a true disciple of Christ. That too is Bible (Matthew 28:20, in context)
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It makes no difference whether you study in the holy language, or in Arabic, or Aramaic [or in Greek or even in English]; it matters only whether it is done with understanding. - Moshe Maimonides.
Acts 2:38 is common restatement of the historical Jewish cultural and religious practices, with the addition of the receiving of the Holy Ghost, as promised in scripture.
One of the obvious doctrines what we so often over look is this one: The Apostles' doctrine is nothing more nor anything less than the sum total doctrines that Jesus Christ taught. Therefore, if one does not know, understand and practice the doctrines (including the commandments) of Christ, that person is not a follower of the Apostles' doctrines, much less a true disciple of Christ. That too is Bible (Matthew 28:20, in context)
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If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
There is a lot that we can quibble and argue about here, as evidenced by the quibbling and arguments that have preceded this.
The thing that stands out to me, however, is that the "speaking in tongues" phenomena that is being described in Acts 2, involved the disciples speaking in earthly languages that were immediately recognizable to native speakers of that language.
A lot of "Acts 2:38 Three Steppers" will insist that they too "received the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues" - just like on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:4). What they don't and won't acknowledge is that they did NOT receive the same experience in "speaking in other tongues" as the disciples in Acts 2. I have heard a comparatively small number of people claim this experience or to have claimed to have witnessed such an experience, but no one ever really has any proof. All I've ever heard, experienced or witnessed in my life is the phenomena known as "unknown tongues" and quite often, we're being really generous to call it a "tongue" or language.
Now, I don't want to cause anyone to doubt their salvation over this; but this should give us pause before we go around telling everyone that they HAVE TO SPEAK IN TONGUES just like the disciples in Acts 2, when we ourselves don't even have that experience.
ow, I don't want to cause anyone to doubt their salvation over this; but this should give us pause before we go around telling everyone that they HAVE TO SPEAK IN TONGUES just like the disciples in Acts 2, when we ourselves don't even have that experience.
Wisdom!
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It makes no difference whether you study in the holy language, or in Arabic, or Aramaic [or in Greek or even in English]; it matters only whether it is done with understanding. - Moshe Maimonides.
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