Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-11-2010, 07:39 AM
coadie coadie is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,889
Happy Columbus day

In the preface to his Libro de las profecías (Book of Prophecies), an anthology of prophetic texts which he compiled near the end of his life, Columbus relates to Ferdinand and Isabella, how, long before he ever approached them, he had become convinced that the Westward voyage was not merely possible but his own personal vocation:

Quote:
During this time, I searched out and studied all kinds of texts: geographies, histories, chronologies, philosophers, and other subjects. With a hand that could be felt, the Lord opened my mind to the fact that it would be possible to sail from here to the Indies, and he opened my will to desire to accomplish this project. This was the fire that burned within me when I came to visit your Highnesses
. (3)

More missionary viewpoints of Columbus
Quote:
Indians and all other people who may later be discovered by the Christians are by no means to be deprived of their liberty or the possession of their property, even though they be outside the faith of Jesus Christ. . . .should the contrary happen it shall be null and of no effect. . . .By virtue of our apostolic authority we declare. . . that the said Indians and other peoples should be converted to the faith of Jesus Christ by preaching the word of God and by the example of good and holy living.
http://www.frinstitute.org/columbus.html
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-11-2010, 10:04 AM
Sam's Avatar
Sam Sam is offline
Jesus' Name Pentecostal


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
Re: Happy Columbus day

for a little more information on Columbus and what his "discovery" did for the Native Americans, read:

http://www.understandingprejudice.or...q/columbus.htm
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-11-2010, 10:05 AM
Sam's Avatar
Sam Sam is offline
Jesus' Name Pentecostal


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
Re: Happy Columbus day

Examining the reputation of
Christopher Columbus
By Jack Weatherford

Christopher Columbus' reputation has not survived the scrutiny of history, and today we know that he was no more the discoverer of America than Pocahontas was the discoverer of Great Britain. Native Americans had built great civilizations with many millions of people long before Columbus wandered lost into the Caribbean.

Columbus' voyage has even less meaning for North Americans than for South Americans because Columbus never set foot on our continent, nor did he open it to European trade. Scandinavian Vikings already had settlements here in the eleventh century, and British fisherman probably fished the shores of Canada for decades before Columbus. The first European explorer to thoroughly document his visit to North America was the Italian explorer Giovanni Caboto, who sailed for England's King Henry VII and became known by his anglicized name, John Cabot. Caboto arrived in 1497 and claimed North America for the English sovereign while Columbus was still searching for India in the Caribbean. After three voyages to America and more than a decade of study, Columbus still believed that Cuba was a part of the continent of Asia, South America was only an island, and the coast of Central America was close to the Ganges River.

Unable to celebrate Columbus' exploration as a great discovery, some apologists now want to commemorate it as the great "cultural encounter." Under this interpretation, Columbus becomes a sensitive genius thinking beyond his time in the passionate pursuit of knowledge and understanding. The historical record refutes this, too.

Contrary to popular legend, Columbus did not prove that the world was round; educated people had known that for centuries. The Egyptian-Greek scientist Erastosthenes, working for Alexandria and Aswan, already had measured the circumference and diameter of the world in the third century B.C. Arab scientists had developed a whole discipline of geography and measurement, and in the tenth century A.D., Al Maqdisi described the earth with 360 degrees of longitude and 180 degrees of latitude. The Monastery of St. Catherine in the Sinai still has an icon - painted 500 years before Columbus - which shows Jesus ruling over a spherical earth. Nevertheless, Americans have embroidered many such legends around Columbus, and he has become part of a secular mythology for schoolchildren. Autumn would hardly be complete in any elementary school without construction-paper replicas of the three cute ships that Columbus sailed to America, or without drawings of Queen Isabella pawning her jewels to finance Columbus' trip.

This myth of the pawned jewels obscures the true and more sinister story of how Columbus financed his trip. The Spanish monarch invested in his excursion, but only on the condition that Columbus would repay this investment with profit by bringing back gold, spices, and other tribute from Asia. This pressing need to repay his debt underlies the frantic tone of Columbus' diaries as he raced from one Caribbean island to the next, stealing anything of value.

After he failed to contact the emperor of China, the traders of India or the merchants of Japan, Columbus decided to pay for his voyage in the one important commodity he had found in ample supply - human lives. He seized 1,200 Taino Indians from the island of Hispaniola, crammed as many onto his ships as would fit and sent them to Spain, where they were paraded naked through the streets of Seville and sold as slaves in 1495. Columbus tore children from their parents, husbands from wives. On board Columbus' slave ships, hundreds died; the sailors tossed the Indian bodies into the Atlantic.

Because Columbus captured more Indian slaves than he could transport to Spain in his small ships, he put them to work in mines and plantations which he, his family and followers created throughout the Caribbean. His marauding band hunted Indians for sport and profit - beating, raping, torturing, killing, and then using the Indian bodies as food for their hunting dogs. Within four years of Columbus' arrival on Hispaniola, his men had killed or exported one-third of the original Indian population of 300,000. Within another 50 years, the Taino people had been made extinct [editor's note: the old assumption that the Taino became extinct is now open to serious question] - the first casualties of the holocaust of American Indians. The plantation owners then turned to the American mainland and to Africa for new slaves to follow the tragic path of the Taino.

This was the great cultural encounter initiated by Christopher Columbus. This is the event we celebrate each year on Columbus Day. The United States honors only two men with federal holidays bearing their names. In January we commemorate the birth of Martin Luther King, Jr., who struggled to lift the blinders of racial prejudice and to cut the remaining bonds of slavery in America. In October, we honor Christopher Columbus, who opened the Atlantic slave trade and launched one of the greatest waves of genocide known in history.

Jack Weatherford is an anthropologist at Macalaster College in St. Paul, Minn. His most recent book is "Indian Givers." He wrote this article for the Baltimore Evening Sun.

This is from
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/Taino/docs/columbus.html
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-11-2010, 10:54 AM
pelathais's Avatar
pelathais pelathais is offline
Accepts all friends requests


 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,609
Re: Happy Columbus day

A little considered theme around the settling of North America was the COOPERATION between Native Americans and the European settlers. By far, the vast majority of Americans with roots going back to the early days have Native American ancestry - a living testament to love and peace that existed between most of the people.

Another often over looked fact is that the "Native Americans" had supplanted even older civilizations and tribes. The Iroquoian (including Cherokee) speaking people had displaced older tribes as did the Algonquin and Muskogee (Creek) and other peoples. Most of the Plains Indians originated in Canada and then conquered their way into the American Plains region when the climate changed.

The Aztecs were a Nahuatl speaking warrior class that over ran the pre-existing Meso-American cultures and enslaved them in a most bloody and violent manner. No one speaks for these conquered and suffering people.

There is a site in Brazil where the remains of a people with "Negroid" characteristics were wiped out in pre-Columbian days. Who were they? Where did they come from? What did their songs and laughter sound like? Who wiped them out? (A large number of remains were found at the base of a cliff and bore other injuries in addition to being thrown from the cliff). No one knows who they were.

The Solutrean arrow and spear points found in France and Spain date back to around 11,000 - 12,000 years ago, near the end of the last Ice Age. For some reason archeologists are able to trace these distinct (and European!) primitive tools from the Alps all the way to the Carolinas, across the American continent to New Mexico. These Solutrean (in America they are known as "Clovis" and "Folsom") tools are far older than any of the other artifacts found in North America and were gradually replaced by the "Plano Culture" tools.

Were the original "Native Americans" European in origin and not Asiatic? Mitochondrial DNA studies have shown a relationship between the "Clovis Indians" remains and people living in Western Asia (Caucasus Mountains) and Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solutrean_theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clovis_...enetic_studies

"Kennewick Man" is a well known and controversial "Caucasian" dated as living around 9,500 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennewick_man

Last edited by pelathais; 10-11-2010 at 10:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-11-2010, 11:54 AM
Arphaxad's Avatar
Arphaxad Arphaxad is offline
Genesis 11:10


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,385
Re: Happy Columbus day

Thanks, Chris, I get paid for not working.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-11-2010, 03:47 PM
coadie coadie is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,889
Re: Happy Columbus day

The Indians claim they should not have allowed illegals.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-11-2010, 03:56 PM
Socialite Socialite is offline
Banned


 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,280
Re: Happy Columbus day

Pel, interesting stuff. And all we learn is how greedy and evil mankind has been throughout the ages.

How did the idea of colonization play into Columbus' exploits, even when it appeared there was mutual peace and prosperity?

Either way, the Westernization of the Americas has done us a favor in the long run. But those pesky in-betweens no as "the means" are ugly reminders.

As it is, Columbus' uncovering (not discovering) of the Americas (or was it Asia, Columbo?) was significant for modern history.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-11-2010, 06:31 PM
pelathais's Avatar
pelathais pelathais is offline
Accepts all friends requests


 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,609
Re: Happy Columbus day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socialite View Post
Pel, interesting stuff. And all we learn is how greedy and evil mankind has been throughout the ages.

How did the idea of colonization play into Columbus' exploits, even when it appeared there was mutual peace and prosperity?

Either way, the Westernization of the Americas has done us a favor in the long run. But those pesky in-betweens no as "the means" are ugly reminders.

As it is, Columbus' uncovering (not discovering) of the Americas (or was it Asia, Columbo?) was significant for modern history.
Columbus famously thought that he could sail to China and "the Indies" by sailing west. His calculations were based upon a misreading of the journies of Marco Polo. Columbus, using Marco Polo's account, figured the coast of "Cathay" (China) was about where Florida is.

Using the ancient calculations of Eratosthenes, savants in the Catholic Church (and the Inquisition) disputed Columbus' claims and at one point had convinced Ferdinand and Isabella that the voyage was impossible. Ironically, the Church had the correct "science" and warned that no sea voyage westward from Spain to China would be possible because there was no way to store enough food and water for the trip.

Columbus simply lucked out. That's all there was to it. No one in Europe at the time dreamed of there being a "New World" out there. Though there is evidence that Basque fishermen were aware of the Grand Banks and possibly Newfoundland. Basque fishermen were turning up with a special type of cod that could be cured and kept for even longer periods of time than anything anyone else in Europe knew about.

Mankind has certainly been "evil and greedy" but humans have also been kind and charitable to one another. I suppose people will see what they want to see in history, but I think current population statistics will bear out the fact that there's been a whole lot more lovin' than killing going on.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-11-2010, 08:56 PM
canam canam is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,270
Re: Happy Columbus day

And here i thought pel, it was all the white mans fault !
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Columbus, OH update Sam Fellowship Hall 24 03-03-2009 09:23 PM
Missions Concert in Columbus Ohio tonight! Sandra Fellowship Hall 2 03-27-2008 01:44 PM
I am a happy man! CC1 Fellowship Hall 30 01-26-2008 07:58 PM
Has AFF Gotten Ban Happy? Michlow Fellowship Hall 275 06-17-2007 09:51 PM
If We're a Happy People than Who's Happy?? revrandy Fellowship Hall 23 06-14-2007 05:59 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.