Depression and mourning a loss

[Carpenter]

I happened across a Lutheran Minister on the golf course who also turned out to have a PhD in pastoral counseling. I asked him about the concept of depression, and how functioning individuals with no history of mental illness are being prescribed an unbelievable amount of anti-depressants.

He agreed and indicated that a majority of higher and normally functioning individuals don't need to be medicated.

Then he said something that really made sense.

He said that most depression is caused due to mourning the loss of something. It could be a physicial or an emotional loss and that mourning is the first stage of depression. The identification of that which you have lost is the first step in not allowing the depression to go to the next level.

I thought that was pretty good even coming from a Lutheran...

[Blubayou]

I agree- I think that way too many people have been prescribed anti depressants. I know in my circle, just about every one I know has been on them at one time or another and some are still on them. I do think there are legitimate reasons for a doctor to prescribe this medicines. But I do think that a lot of people/ doctors get to the root of the problems, and just treat the problem with a pill.

[Hoovie]

"I thought that was pretty good even coming from a Lutheran..."

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

"I thought that was pretty good even coming from a Lutheran..."

You disagree?

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

You disagree?

It is good.

Obama will likely give a good speech tonight... for a black candidate.

[U376977]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

I happened across a Lutheran Minister on the golf course who also turned out to have a PhD in pastoral counseling. I asked him about the concept of depression, and how functioning individuals with no history of mental illness are being prescribed an unbelievable amount of anti-depressants.

He agreed and indicated that a majority of higher and normally functioning individuals don't need to be medicated.

Then he said something that really made sense.

He said that most depression is caused due to mourning the loss of something. It could be a physicial or an emotional loss and that mourning is the first stage of depression. The identification of that which you have lost is the first step in not allowing the depression to go to the next level.

I thought that was pretty good even coming from a Lutheran...

Even a Lutheran can have wisdom!

Best source of "depression" help that I ever come across is the book by CS Lewis A Grief Observed. He is writing it after the death of his wife. His the thoughts and emotions as he went thru the healing process are an amazing read. And the wisdom in the book can apply to all forms depression but particulary to those who have lost a loved one. If I were in a pastoral position it would be a complimentary gift to all members who experienced a death.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

I happened across a Lutheran Minister on the golf course who also turned out to have a PhD in pastoral counseling. I asked him about the concept of depression, and how functioning individuals with no history of mental illness are being prescribed an unbelievable amount of anti-depressants.

He agreed and indicated that a majority of higher and normally functioning individuals don't need to be medicated.

Then he said something that really made sense.

He said that most depression is caused due to mourning the loss of something. It could be a physicial or an emotional loss and that mourning is the first stage of depression. The identification of that which you have lost is the first step in not allowing the depression to go to the next level.

I thought that was pretty good even coming from a Lutheran...

The problem is not that medications are wrong, but that it takes a good counselor or psychologist to differentiate between what is situational depression and what is a chemical imbalance.

There is a difference also in grief and loss and mourning. I have went to multiple seminars on both. Typical grief and loss is just knowing the stages and progressing through them. Mourning is more dehibilitating and needs counseling and medication.

Please don't make this thread about "medications are of the devil and not necessary" it just shows iognorance of the topic.

Blessings, Rhoni

P.S. Pastoral counseling is more about the spiritual and Biblical aspects of church counseling and not about all types of mental illnesses and psychopharmacology.

[rgcraig]

Carp,

Depression is one of five steps in grief or mourning which is when someone loses something. That loss can be anything - not just physical death. Loss of a loved one, divorce, rejection of a child or family member, job, a church, the list could go on and on.

The five steps can be experienced in in order and even repeated before the acceptance really sets in - which is when the healing occurs.

"1) DENIAL

In the denial stage we refuse to believe what has happened. We try in our mind to tell ourselves that life is as it was before our loss. We can even make believe to an extent by re enacting rituals that we used to go through with our loved one. Making an extra cup of tea for our loved one who is no longer there, rushing back to tell someone that you have met an old friend. Flashing back to times and conversations in the past as though they we here with us now. They can all be part of this stage.


2) ANGER

We get angry. The anger can manifest itself in many ways. We can blame others for our loss. We can become easily agitated having emotional outbursts. We can even become angry with ourselves. Care must be taken here not to turn this anger inwards. Release of this anger is a far better way to cope with grief in my experience.


3) BARGAINING

Bargaining can be with ourselves or if you are religious with your god. Often we will offer something to try to take away the reality of what has happened. We may try to make a deal, to have our loved one back as they were before the tragic event occured. It is only human to want thing as they were before.


4) DEPRESSION

Depression is a very likely outcome for all people that grieve for a loss. This is what I would consider the most difficult stage of the five to deal with. There can be a the feeling listlessness and tiredness. You may be bursting helplessly into tears. Feeling like there is no purpose to life any more. Feeling guilty, like everything is your own fault. You may find you feel like you are being punished. Pleasure and joy can be difficult to achieve even from things and activities which you have always gained delight. There can even be thoughts of suicide. There are many different ways in which this stage of grief can manifest itself. If you at any time in this stage feel like doing yourself any harm please do seek professional counseling. Self preservation is a must.


5) ACCEPTANCE

The final stage of grief. It is when you realize that life has to go on. You can here accept your loss. You should now be able to regain your energy and goals for the future. It may take some time to get here but you will. "

I personally believe what is stated above is completely natural. I also believe some medicate when what they are going through is completely normal and if someone, counselor, pastor or friend can help them get past the four stages and final get to the acceptance they'll be fine without medication.

Its when someone gets "stuck" in one of those four categories and can't get through them to finally accept and move on that it becomes a problem.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

I happened across a Lutheran Minister on the golf course who also turned out to have a PhD in pastoral counseling. I asked him about the concept of depression, and how functioning individuals with no history of mental illness are being prescribed an unbelievable amount of anti-depressants.

He agreed and indicated that a majority of higher and normally functioning individuals don't need to be medicated.

Then he said something that really made sense.

He said that most depression is caused due to mourning the loss of something. It could be a physicial or an emotional loss and that mourning is the first stage of depression. The identification of that which you have lost is the first step in not allowing the depression to go to the next level.

I thought that was pretty good even coming from a Lutheran...

When I read this it struck me that I think deep depression is caused by mourning a loss you feel you have no control over. The deepest depression I have had in my life was back when I was in the church for a few years and felt that everything was a sin and everything that could lead me out of depression was a sin (besides praying through!). What led me out was years of following God's direction and leaning on his peace. I remember vividly one time I was yelling and praying at the altar and talking in tongues. I felt like God told me to have the pastor lay hands on me and pray for me. I asked him and as he was praying for me I felt God say "Rest in my peace" and slowly I calmed down and felt the peace of God come over me. At the end of it, I was not talking in tongues, not pryaing loudly, I was just resting and I felt God more at that moment than before. I remember other things that brought me out slowly over the years. Mostly, it was following small steps toward God that went against popular opinion about what I should be doing. It was very slow and small steps though, because popular opinion was so ingrained in me as "what God wants". Only when I understood trhough prayer what God REALLY wanted, was I able to let go of popular opinion. This process took YEARS.

I have suffered great loss in recent years leaving the ministry and the UPC behind. All we worked for our whole adult lives we left behind. We have both suffered some depression because of it, but it was not that dark, black hole I was in back when I thought I had to do what these people were telling me and it wasn't really what God wanted. I feel loss, but I rest in His peace.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Carp,

Depression is one of five steps in grief or mourning which is when someone loses something. That loss can be anything - not just physical death. Loss of a loved one, divorce, rejection of a child or family member, job, a church, the list could go on and on.

The five steps can be experienced in in order and even repeated before the acceptance really sets in - which is when the healing occurs.

"1) DENIAL

In the denial stage we refuse to believe what has happened. We try in our mind to tell ourselves that life is as it was before our loss. We can even make believe to an extent by re enacting rituals that we used to go through with our loved one. Making an extra cup of tea for our loved one who is no longer there, rushing back to tell someone that you have met an old friend. Flashing back to times and conversations in the past as though they we here with us now. They can all be part of this stage.


2) ANGER

We get angry. The anger can manifest itself in many ways. We can blame others for our loss. We can become easily agitated having emotional outbursts. We can even become angry with ourselves. Care must be taken here not to turn this anger inwards. Release of this anger is a far better way to cope with grief in my experience.


3) BARGAINING

Bargaining can be with ourselves or if you are religious with your god. Often we will offer something to try to take away the reality of what has happened. We may try to make a deal, to have our loved one back as they were before the tragic event occured. It is only human to want thing as they were before.


4) DEPRESSION

Depression is a very likely outcome for all people that grieve for a loss. This is what I would consider the most difficult stage of the five to deal with. There can be a the feeling listlessness and tiredness. You may be bursting helplessly into tears. Feeling like there is no purpose to life any more. Feeling guilty, like everything is your own fault. You may find you feel like you are being punished. Pleasure and joy can be difficult to achieve even from things and activities which you have always gained delight. There can even be thoughts of suicide. There are many different ways in which this stage of grief can manifest itself. If you at any time in this stage feel like doing yourself any harm please do seek professional counseling. Self preservation is a must.


5) ACCEPTANCE

The final stage of grief. It is when you realize that life has to go on. You can here accept your loss. You should now be able to regain your energy and goals for the future. It may take some time to get here but you will. "

I personally believe what is stated above is completely natural. I also believe some medicate when what they are going through is completely normal and if someone, counselor, pastor or friend can help them get past the four stages and final get to the acceptance they'll be fine without medication.

Its when someone gets "stuck" in one of those four categories and can't get through them to finally accept and move on that it becomes a problem.

Exactly! Good post Renda!