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Old 03-24-2007, 10:34 AM
SDG SDG is offline
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Prayers of Vengence: May his children be fatherless

The psalms are filled with various songs/ prayers of vengeance. There are other similar passages scattered especially in the OT.

Sometimes it appears to a casual observer to be somewhat extreme.

I've met various brethren who read these types of Psalms and take them to heart. They are often martyrs of their own making and often quote these Psalms with fluency against all of their imagined, and sometimes real, enemies.

One passage in particular that stands out is Psalm 109.

Psalm 109

For the director of music. Of David. A psalm.

1 O God, whom I praise,
do not remain silent, 2 for wicked and deceitful men
have opened their mouths against me;
they have spoken against me with lying tongues.
3 With words of hatred they surround me;
they attack me without cause.
4 In return for my friendship they accuse me,
but I am a man of prayer.
5 They repay me evil for good,
and hatred for my friendship.


This is where it gets intense...


6 Appoint [a] an evil man [b] to oppose him;
let an accuser [c] stand at his right hand.

7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
and may his prayers condemn him.

8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.

9 May his children be fatherless
and his wife a widow.

10 May his children be wandering beggars;
may they be driven [d] from their ruined homes.

11 May a creditor seize all he has;
may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.

12 May no one extend kindness to him
or take pity on his fatherless children.

13 May his descendants be cut off,
their names blotted out from the next generation.

14 May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the LORD;
may the sin of his mother never be blotted out.

15 May their sins always remain before the LORD,
that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.

16 For he never thought of doing a kindness,
but hounded to death the poor
and the needy and the brokenhearted.

17 He loved to pronounce a curse—
may it [e] come on him;
he found no pleasure in blessing—
may it be [f] far from him.

18 He wore cursing as his garment;
it entered into his body like water,
into his bones like oil.

19 May it be like a cloak wrapped about him,
like a belt tied forever around him.

20 May this be the LORD's payment to my accusers,
to those who speak evil of me.



Then it mellows here ....


21 But you, O Sovereign LORD,
deal well with me for your name's sake;
out of the goodness of your love, deliver me.
22 For I am poor and needy,
and my heart is wounded within me.
23 I fade away like an evening shadow;
I am shaken off like a locust.
24 My knees give way from fasting;
my body is thin and gaunt.
25 I am an object of scorn to my accusers;
when they see me, they shake their heads.
26 Help me, O LORD my God;
save me in accordance with your love.
27 Let them know that it is your hand,
that you, O LORD, have done it.
28 They may curse, but you will bless;
when they attack they will be put to shame,
but your servant will rejoice.
29 My accusers will be clothed with disgrace
and wrapped in shame as in a cloak.
30 With my mouth I will greatly extol the LORD;
in the great throng I will praise him.
31 For he stands at the right hand of the needy one,
to save his life from those who condemn him.
__________________________________________________ _

I have some serious questions:


1.Is it right to pray this way?

2.Is it healthy to intercede in this manner?

3. How does one reconcile these type of Psalms with Christ's command to "Love thy enemy" and "Pray for those that curse you"

4. Is the Psalmist in this chapter being selfish?

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Old 03-24-2007, 11:01 AM
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How about this one???

Psalm 139:21,22

21 Do I not hate those who hate You, O LORD?
And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?

22 I hate them with the utmost hatred;
They have become my enemies.
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Old 03-24-2007, 11:03 AM
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RevDWW RevDWW is offline
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One must look at these in light of knowing our real enemy. The two greatest enemies of a Christian are our flesh and the devil. And in that order.

Doesn't the word say we wrestle not against flesh and blood...........?
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Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

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Old 03-24-2007, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by RevDWW View Post
One must look at these in light of knowing our real enemy. The two greatest enemies of a Christian are our flesh and the devil. And in that order.

Doesn't the word say we wrestle not against flesh and blood...........?
Yet these Psalms seem pretty people-specific... do they not????
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Old 03-24-2007, 06:58 PM
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Bump ... any of you pray in this manner????
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Old 03-24-2007, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Yet these Psalms seem pretty people-specific... do they not????
Sure, David had flesh and blood enemies looking to kill him. How many of those do you have?
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Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

"Do not believe everthing you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln
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Old 03-24-2007, 07:19 PM
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Sure, David had flesh and blood enemies looking to kill him. How many of those do you have?
Around here????
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Old 03-24-2007, 08:07 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Bump ... any of you pray in this manner????
No, do you?

Jesus want us to bless those that curse us and to pray for those that despitefully use us that we may be like our Father in heaven. It's no longer an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. God has called us to a higher level, to be like Him. For He is kind to the unjust and expects us to be His children and imitate our heavenly Father. :
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Old 03-24-2007, 08:16 PM
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I just quote some of the Psalms when I pray...if one of those vengeance ones fit...well David prayed it so I thought it must be all right for me too!

Blessings, Rhoni
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Old 03-24-2007, 09:36 PM
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Sam Sam is offline
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Was the Apostle Paul praying that way when he said, "Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works" in his last epistle before his homegoing?
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