What I want to know is if anyone first dropped standards then decided the W/S doctrine was wrong.
No the first time I heard someone explain John 3:5 as not being about baptism it actually made sense to me. I feel like you have to bring a lot of baggage with you to get baptism out of that passage. So I kicked the W/S doctrine first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cneasttx
Then what does the water and Spirit you see in that text mean?
When Jesus explains it he compares a natural birth to a spiritual birth...that which is born of the flesh is flesh that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710
When Jesus explains it he compares a natural birth to a spiritual birth...that which is born of the flesh is flesh that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
Water = natural birth
Spirit = spiritual birth
(but that's a separate thread)
Exactly and when I saw that, it made so much sense to me!
Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710
When Jesus explains it he compares a natural birth to a spiritual birth...that which is born of the flesh is flesh that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
Water = natural birth
Spirit = spiritual birth
(but that's a separate thread)
No I get it, was just wondering if you believe people should be baptized in water.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710
Yes, I suppose never thought of baptizing someone in anything else. But I certainly don't point to John 3:5 for that.
Let me rephrase my question. Do you believe in water baptism?
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710
When Jesus explains it he compares a natural birth to a spiritual birth...that which is born of the flesh is flesh that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
Water = natural birth
Spirit = spiritual birth
(but that's a separate thread)
Seems silly for Jesus to say; 'In order to get to heaven you first have to be born... and then you have to be born again. But first.. gotta make sure you're born.. if you aren't born you don't stand a chance of getting into heaven.
DUH.
But that scripture aside, there are pleanty others for Water and Spirit.
Indeed, another thread.
__________________ Mrs. LPW
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
I don't mind my post being moved... but Ferd did ask the question on the previous thread... about if people dropped the w/s doctrine before or after dropping standards... So some of the above posts were actually answering Ferd's question.
Not sure if that means anything.. Ferd may wonder why no one answered if he reads the other thread only.
__________________ Mrs. LPW
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
Seems silly for Jesus to say; 'In order to get to heaven you first have to be born... and then you have to be born again. But first.. gotta make sure you're born.. if you aren't born you don't stand a chance of getting into heaven.
DUH.
But that scripture aside, there are pleanty others for Water and Spirit.
Indeed, another thread.
No, see that's where we bring baggage.
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Jesus says born again.
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Nicodemus answers another natural birth?
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jesus then distinguishes between the first birth (water) and the second (spirit)
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Then He talks just about the spirit birth.
We bring baptism to this passage and insert born again of water, that's not what He said.
I don't mind my post being moved... but Ferd did ask the question on the previous thread... about if people dropped the w/s doctrine before or after dropping standards... So some of the above posts were actually answering Ferd's question.
Not sure if that means anything.. Ferd may wonder why no one answered if he reads the other thread only.
Ferd's question is a part of this thread now too.
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
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