The High Price of Intentional Indiscretions

Pardon another lengthy (albeit, shorter than the last) post but my heart just seems to be speaking to me lately. (I do wish it was in the middle of the day instead of the 'wee' hours of the morning!)

I remember a few years ago that I was preaching for a young couple that I have spent much time trying to help. They had seen, firsthand, some element of hypocrisy in ‘high places’ and I honestly believed that – because of their confidence in my ministry - I could help reestablish their hearts back to a sure spiritual foundation.

I spent entire week with them and was to culminate on a Friday night with a big rally at their Church. Each night they seemed to look and conduct themselves as being genuinely Apostolic. However, on that Friday I overheard them in a fairly heated argument (I was staying in their home) and repeatedly heard the woman saying, “Even if you don’t believe it I think it’s the wrong way to prove it!”

I wandered back to my room to get far enough away that embarrassment might not be a factor. Imagine my shock, however, when I walked out ready to go to Church and saw the young ‘Pastor’ in a casual shirt and pants. He had some kind of a huge ring on his hand. Each night before he was dressed in a suit and no ring whatsoever. Just about the time that I gathered my composure his wife walked around the corner. She was wearing a skirt about 4 inches above her knee, a blouse so sheer you could see her slip and enough makeup to replenish Maybelline. Each of the other four nights she was the epitome of holiness and modesty.

As you might imagine the Rally was strained. Even though their Presbyter was one of the leading authors of holiness books in our ranks this couple had decided to ‘make a statement’ that night. What little worship that was mustered by the Sectional Youth man was crucified when this host ‘Pastor’ walked to the pulpit and talked… all the while playing with this huge ring on his pinky. Then he introduced his wife to lead song service and you could feel the confusion fill the house. The Presbyter, being a classy man, acted like nothing was awry as he introduced me and, thankfully, there was enough response to help carry me through the message.

Obviously after the Rally and fellowship, as we were on the way home, our conversation turned to his ‘belief’ that he had to ‘prove a point’ to those ‘uptight Apostolics’. I have to admit that, in all fairness, his wife was more mortified than in agreement but he was adamant that he was the ‘enlightened one’ whose task was to shove his ‘freedom’ full in the face of the Body of Christ.

Needless to say, my heartbeat and opinion of this once potential laden couple was forever crushed that night. They ‘made their statement’ but in doing so they lost the confidence and trust of an entire fellowship because of their flesh driven arrogance. Their ‘freedom’ to make a statement cost them dearly.

To complicate matters they quickly felt completely alienated because, truthfully, the greatest statement they made is that they didn’t share certain core values that most within their fellowship did. They ‘proved their point’ but in doing so they also proved their lack of respect for those among their own needed fellowship. Their ‘right’ to prove a point cost them their fellowship leaving them feeling alienated.

I’ll never forget how I felt that night as I lay in bed in their home. I knew that a critical mistake had been made. I felt violated in my friendship and that all my sacrifice to help them had been lost. But that was not the greatest loss that day. The greatest loss was theirs and it was a twofold loss that day as…
• Within they lost the trust and confidence of not only a man who wanted to help them but an entire arena of people who loved them.
• Without they lost their familiar realm of fellowship leaving their own lives feeling alienated.

They paid a painfully High Price for their Intentional Indiscretion!

It’s not necessary that I go into the details of how they ended up being a casualty of carnal Christianity as evidenced by their divorce and steady march into one of the most complete deceptions I’ve ever seen. That’s all past and there’s nothing much to be done about that now.

What is on my mind, however, is the frequency that I feel that same sad, sick feeling in the last several months. We’ve seen once ‘safe’ meetings politicized, seen a flood of Youth Camps doing things that would have been unheard of a few years ago and evidently some questions about more recent meetings. It’s not my job to judge them or determine their intentions by doing certain things; but it is my observation that we, as a movement, need to realize The High Price of Intentional Indiscretions. What is that price? Just as that young couple…

(a) We are evolving into a movement that is losing trust and confidence in certain personalities among us. That is unfortunate because we have some priceless men with good intentions among us. But when they intentionally ‘prove their point’ at the expense of what others believe there will always be a loss of respect and honor for those certain personalities.

That is a high price but it always accompanies intentional indiscretions.

(b) It also produces people who suddenly find themselves feeling alienated from the strength and support of that fellowship that made them what they are. This is why far too many who reach for another path suddenly start saying, “I just don’t fit in with them anymore. They don’t understand grace like I do. Those nasty affirmation statements divided us.” No, we divided ourselves when we stopped valuing the core beliefs of the fellowship that supported us until we could stand on our own. Nobody wants to feel alienated but, again, those intentional indiscretions you ‘have a right to make’ have the ability to leave you all alone.

It’s a high price that always accompanies intentional indiscretions.

I want to trust my brethren.
I need the fellowship of those that may not believe standards exactly like me.
But more and more often I get that 'sick' feeling leaving me wondering if those 'indiscretions' are intentional.
We ARE paying a high price whether we want to admit it or not.

God help us as an organization - as a fellowship – to make very sure we’re willing to pay the price it’s going to cost before we make intentional indiscretions that will violate the very ones we need the most.

Selah......

[pelathais]

I share your disappointment in the way things were handled by the couple in your story. You will seldom get anywhere by jumping up into other people's faces. Another sad fact was obviously that they felt that they were justified somehow, probably because of the "element of hypocrisy in 'high places...'"

It's good to warn of the dangers of going overboard in reaction to the hurts one receives from an organizational fellowship. I think what we're beginning to see; however, is sometimes open defiance to abusive systems.

Too much time has passed without those who abuse leadership being held accountable. Innocent blood is literally crying out from the ground.

And, while the blood of Jesus Christ does speak better things than the cry of the spilt innocent blood, you can't go too long ignoring the cries of the innocent before God Himself begins to move against you.

[Brett Prince]

Steadfast,

Do me a favor and post one of your inspiring threads before I go to bed. This one is a major downer.

I feel for you, and I feel the pain of what you are saying.

Lord help us have unity.

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

I wandered back to my room to get far enough away that embarrassment might not be a factor. Imagine my shock, however, when I walked out ready to go to Church and saw the young ‘Pastor’ in a casual shirt and pants. He had some kind of a huge ring on his hand. Each night before he was dressed in a suit and no ring whatsoever. Just about the time that I gathered my composure his wife walked around the corner. She was wearing a skirt about 4 inches above her knee, a blouse so sheer you could see her slip and enough makeup to replenish Maybelline. Each of the other four nights she was the epitome of holiness and modesty.

Even during the "holy 4" they already had in their possession all the articles for their new "lifestyle."

They were drawn away of their own lusts, before you even got there.

[Consapostolic1]

As all your post, this post is right on point with the things that are facing the upc.

[Amos]

Great word, Brother.

We will all do well to take heed.

[Sherri]

This couple just moved in the gift of ignorance!! Never, never, never should you disrespect the men or organization that you serve under. I learned that best in the book "The Tale of Three Kings" which I have read several times. Even when you don't agree, if you are a part of the system, you should try to submit. If you feel that you cannot submit to something that you believe is error, then you should get out. But don't cause confusion in the body; you will be held accountable as a rebellious one.

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by Sherri

This couple just moved in the gift of ignorance!! Never, never, never should you disrespect the men or organization that you serve under. I learned that best in the book "The Tale of Three Kings" which I have read several times. Even when you don't agree, if you are a part of the system, you should try to submit. If you feel that you cannot submit to something that you believe is error, then you should get out. But don't cause confusion in the body; you will be held accountable as a rebellious one.

True. They could have chosen another way to make a 'statement'. They evidently had much deeper problems than 'standards'.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by Sherri

This couple just moved in the gift of ignorance!! Never, never, never should you disrespect the men or organization that you serve under. I learned that best in the book "The Tale of Three Kings" which I have read several times. Even when you don't agree, if you are a part of the system, you should try to submit. If you feel that you cannot submit to something that you believe is error, then you should get out. But don't cause confusion in the body; you will be held accountable as a rebellious one.

Unfortunately, idiots like this couple are the face that the conservatives put on those that dare to disagree with given rules and regulations! It sounds to me that this couple's rebellious nature would have doomed them even if they had taken a sudden confusing ultra-con slant and started putting everyone at the rally in hell for wearing sleeves that didn't cover their elbows, etc. The "let's show them!" attitude stinks to the high heavens!

I believe that certain "civil disobedience" is needed to effect change when some rules and regulations are too stringent. But....going to the extreme to make a statement at a highly visible event is wrong, and shows a rebellious spirit!

[Esther]

A truly sad situation.

I agree with Sherri and PM, they were out of order.

I do NOT agree with all the standards that are taught by many as being salvational, yet I still abide by them, as I am still a part of this organization.

I have no problem with any organization drawing lines as to how they want to be identified. However, I do have a problem when it is taught as salvational when it is NOT.

I would not want to cause anyone to stumble over something they could not adhere to. Yet, at the same time I understand that drawing lines is an attempt to keep them safe.

I think some have drawn their lines to far out, not even reasonable. That seems to always bring a self-righteous spirit with it.

Balance is a very hard thing to achieve. It seems to vary by many different opinions.

I know we are in the hour of deception, and knowing that I am hesitant to make any changes lest I be deceived.

But I think you are right Steadfast, changes are coming. How will it be handled? Who knows. I hope with love.