Question about why Oneness is so important?

[Michael The Disciple]

Hi FT

I

n short: God's existence is so far beyond our human experience for us to be able to possibly comprehend or describe it in any meaningful way.

But if that be true why did YAH bother to tell us the many things he did about himself? Was he just wasting his and our time or did he expect us to believe what he said and abide in it?

10: Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11: I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. Isaiah 43:10-11

It looks to me like he actually expected us to KNOW, BELIEVE, AND UNDERSTAND that he is the only one who is our God.

The reason Oneness is so important is because YAH said it is important. Thats all the reason we need to embrace it and love it.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by FourthTrumpet

As I said I'm not clear on everything OP believe or do not believe.

BTW I just finished listening to a long debate someone linked to with Matt Slick and a oneness guy (there's a continuation of it somewhere - anyone got a link?) and the oneness guy was constantly putting words into Matt's mouth. It was annoying to listen to, and it was clear both were confused about the others position.

Well, I'm not up for a debate on this subject. I believe simply believe my only true living and almighty God eternally exists in three persons, co-equal in glory and power: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Some how that doesn't violate God's will, and I believe only in Heaven can such a truth be articulated for us adequately - whereas on earth we simply have a limited capacity/vocabulary to wrap our heads around something we've yet to fully experience - so I don't need to be able to articulate all the fine details that only lead to endless strawman arguements and confusing debates, for others to suffer through (anyone got that link BTW ).

Somehow at the end of such a perfect non-confusing explanation I'd be vindicated as someone who is NOT worshipping multiple "gods" like the pagans do.

FT

I believe Trinitarians confuse us often by speaking of the Almighty God as if God is a HE (person) , but then tell us He exists or has existed eternally as three other HEs (persons)

I believe God is one HE who exists eternally as HE, the I AM, Yahweh and that He became the Son when HE added a Human nature to His own person and Divine nature to come to exist (being) as a Human in addition to His continued existence (being) as God transcendent without or external to the Human nature

I can't really see what else I can add of value to this subject. No believer knows everything about God, and so I simply accept that for myself this isn't damning me in any way if words fail me to articulate these profound things as per my previous comments. It's enough that I am obedient and continue to be a fisher of men - that I never forget what God saved me from when I accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior, and share this with others. There's plenty the Holy Spirit is doing on my behalf when words simply fail me. Some people are impossible for us to evangelise, so often times simple words like "come and see" like Philip used with Nathanel suffice to invite someone to Church. When explaining God's Project to my future child I'll simply say "look we're like Noah building an ark - doing the Work of the Lord - and at some point we'll be rescued from a judgement, so don't leave Jesus Christ, nor do we resist the Holy Spirit's lead, so you won't fall short of obeying God's will of pointing others to Christ who saved us both and wants to save them too". That's enough information for them. It's enough that one obeys rather than get bogged down in theory. A well educated pastor was trying to reason one time with an unbeliever with a ton of education. However it wasn't until one of the brethern with him simply said to the other man "Jesus loves you" that the fellow broke down into tears and accepted Jesus. Sometimes we make things too complicated for ourselves. This will likely be how my parents are saved, the Lord will probabably use one of my children when they are young "Grandma/Grandpa, my Jesus loves you", etc. My parents are catholic. So I'll obviously explain to them simply that idols are not real, and not to worship idols like thier grandparents - but expecting them to fully grasping everything (or for me to) about God is simply unreasonable.

[Rico]

FT, the biggest difference is that we believe Jesus is the God of the OT manifest in flesh.

Originally Posted by Brother Price

This is a good question.

Jesus said in John 8:24, "That is why I told you that you will die in (under the curse of) your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He [Whom I claim to be--if you do not adhere to, trust in, and rely on Me], you will die in your sins." He said that unless one believes that He is God, they shall die in their sins.

Where does it say "Unless you believe that I am God, you will die in your sins? Trinitarians also believe in the deity of Christ and, in fact, the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed even says that Jesus is "of one essence with the Father."

In Mark 2:5-7, we see even the Pharisees knew that only God could forgive sins, "And when Jesus saw their faith [their confidence in God through Him], He said to the paralyzed man, Son, your sins are forgiven Unregistered and put away [that is, the penalty is remitted, the sense of guilt removed, and you are made upright and in right standing with God]. Now some of the scribes were sitting there, holding a dialogue with themselves as they questioned in their hearts, Why does this Man talk like this? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins [remove guilt, remit the penalty, and bestow righteousness instead] except God alone?"

Thus, the belief that Jesus is the only one who can forgive sins, meaning also that He is God, is paramount to salvation.

You need to STOP BEARING FALSE WITNESS AGAINST JESUS !!!!!! Read THE REST OF THE PASSAGE: "And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? "Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house." Notice also what Jesus said to the Apostles in John 20:19-23, "On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, 'Peace be with you.' When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, 'Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.' And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.'"