Have we lost respect for the ministry?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

And just to keep it in context, we aren't talking about bad living BEFORE becoming a Christian, but AFTER being a Christian, and AFTER being put in a position of responsibility in a congregation.

Although Paul's testimony hints that even some preconversion sins may disqualify from later postconversion ministry.

Excellent

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Being the Pastor, probably that will not happen. Being used ever again in the ministry, I can say yes he could be used again.

I give bible studies to inmates weekly. I have given bible studies for years in the prisons and jails of Colorado, and now here in Utah. Been to high max prisons, and county jails. Had bible studies with inmates that will never see the outside of a facility again. Being used again after a horrific crime isn't out of the bounds of impossible, it just determines who your ministering to.

You’re in Utah?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

You think that was just for the jews, and cannot be applied to a persons calling? It cannot be a principal applied to the new covenant church?

I understand that it's a touchy subject, I just see many in the church salivating over the fact that they can pronounce judgement on the situation that was brought up. It's like they want to be the one pushing the drug into the vein of the man or women being put to death.

Truly, the man that committed the act, would have to restored by prayer, fasting, counseling. I believe the current leadership, and saints would have to agree for a position in the church for that man or women. I believe God can still use him.

God was using him. Yet, he made the decision to quit being used by God.
people in positions of authority understand what they are doing. It’s not an accident, where they fell into adultery, child molestation, embezzlement, or drug abuse. They might be able to ignore the word of God, or the Holy Ghost. But their conscience needs to be seared with a hot iron. We sometimes like to be nicer than Jesus. When that happens we end up getting in some hot mess.

[votivesoul]

It really depends on the state of the ministry, does it not?

Respect is always earned and is easy to lose, hard to be re-earned once lost.

Jesus, if you will, disrespected the ministry in some of the churches in Asia Minor in Revelation 2 and 3, because they were at fault and didn't deserve it.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

It really depends on the state of the ministry, does it not?

Respect is always earned and is easy to lose, hard to be re-earned once lost.

Jesus, if you will, disrespected the ministry in some of the churches in Asia Minor in Revelation 2 and 3, because they were at fault and didn't deserve it.

[Tithesmeister]

I have another perspective.

What if it is not the general population of the church that has lost confidence in the ministry?

What if it is actually the ministry that has lost respect for the ministry?
The meaning of minister has evolved. In proper context, used in scripture, to minister meant to serve. Today it often is more interpreted as a ruler. (Obey those who rule over you is interpreted to mean “obey your pastor”). It is an oxymoron. We are actually ruled by they who are supposed to be servants. This is especially true in larger churches.

I wonder how many pastors would remain if they were truly signing up to serve. Servants don’t normally live in large houses. Servants don’t typically make more money than the ones they serve. They normally wouldn’t be the ones driving the Range Rover. They don’t typically get the fanciest food.

Maybe we shouldn’t refer to them as ministers.

Also we are talking about the UPCI here? It is really an association of preachers. Of course it is going to be biased towards preachers.

Years ago it was said that we were against make up, until the pastors wife began hosting Mary Kay parties.

We were against organized sports until the pastors son needed to play baseball.

We were against television until the pastor got one.

We were against internet until they discovered it was a revenue stream.

There are many such examples. Don’t think that my point is that these issues are right or wrong. It just seems problematic that the same ultra conservative preachers that preached on the evils of the internet, are now preaching on the internet. God it seems, has changed His mind.

So we have this situation where adultery is wrong. Until the pastor commits adultery. I’m beginning to see a trend. It may not be a case of us losing respect for the ministry. It may be the ministry losing respect for itself.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I have another perspective.

What if it is not the general population of the church that has lost confidence in the ministry?

What if it is actually the ministry that has lost respect for the ministry?
The meaning of minister has evolved. In proper context, used in scripture, to minister meant to serve. Today it often is more interpreted as a ruler. (Obey those who rule over you is interpreted to mean “obey your pastor”). It is an oxymoron. We are actually ruled by they who are supposed to be servants. This is especially true in larger churches.

I wonder how many pastors would remain if they were truly signing up to serve. Servants don’t normally live in large houses. Servants don’t typically make more money than the ones they serve. They normally wouldn’t be the ones driving the Range Rover. They don’t typically get the fanciest food.

Maybe we shouldn’t refer to them as ministers.

Also we are talking about the UPCI here? It is really an association of preachers. Of course it is going to be biased towards preachers.

Years ago it was said that we were against make up, until the pastors wife began hosting Mary Kay parties.

We were against organized sports until the pastors son needed to play baseball.

We were against television until the pastor got one.

We were against internet until they discovered it was a revenue stream.

There are many such examples. Don’t think that my point is that these issues are right or wrong. It just seems problematic that the same ultra conservative preachers that preached on the evils of the internet, are now preaching on the internet. God it seems, has changed His mind.

So we have this situation where adultery is wrong. Until the pastor commits adultery. I’m beginning to see a trend. It may not be a case of us losing respect for the ministry. It may be the ministry losing respect for itself.

Right, quote from my original post "Seems like ministers themselves are losing respect for the office, not just people."

It's similar to wives submit and reverence your husbands. I say be a husband that makes it easier to respect you. Same applies between ministry and the saints.

[Evang.Benincasa]

I believe the portion no one would like to admit. Is that these offenders actually were never meant to be placed in leadership. They weren’t “sent” they just “went.” The preacher who ends up cheating on his wife, his children, and his church family. They had that flawed character, way before he climbed behind the lectern. Hence Jesus stating that there should not be those desiring to be teachers. Because of the greater penalty of damnation. Giving someone the reins when they don’t have a clue on how to control themselves. Is a recipe for disaster. Sometimes it shows up right away. Yet, sadly (because of those around them enabling them) they continue for years. Moses David Berg was a serial pervert. Who was able to build a cult network. Destroying the lives of those who he shepherd. Jim Jones was never supposed to be in leadership. Yet, he was able to build a following who followed him to their deaths. Spiritually and physically. Religion (like politics) attracts mentally delusional individuals with visions of grandeur. Individuals who should of never be placed in a ministering role.