Sinless Perfection

Michael The Disciple · #1 05-15-2018, 10:28 PM

Do you believe one can overcome sin consistently? Can we be perfect as to holiness?

consapente89 · #2 05-16-2018, 06:20 AM

The first 2 options are both true. We absolutely can live above sin but the flesh will always be prone to it. If we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Aquila · #3 05-16-2018, 07:58 AM

How does one define sin?

I know folks that define sin as strictly being a violation of the Ten Commandments (transgression of the Law of God). Since most can keep the Ten Commandments in their sleep, these individuals tend to do quite well in their ability to be living in sinless perfection.

And yet, I know others who believe that sin is anything that "misses the mark" of exemplifying God's divine love and holiness. Therefore, simply becoming angry at someone in traffic is a sin, a single lustful thought, no matter how quickly dismissed is sin. Becoming angry with one's spouse or children without just cause is sin. Eating that which is unhealthy is sin. Eating too much, healthy or not, is sin. White lies are sin, like when someone says, "Good morning. How are you?", if you answer, "Fantastic.", and you're not fantastic, fussing with kids, wife, etc., you've sinned. Breaking any law of man, for example speeding, jay walking, spitting on the sidewalk, is sin. Speaking to a brother or sister irreverently is sin. Jesting and jokes are sin, especially if off color. Anxiety is sin ("Be anxious for nothing."). I could go on and on and on. Essentially, these folks will tell you that you sin (miss the mark of God's perfection) every day.

So, I believe the key to understanding how an individual might answer this question is in their definition of sin.

How do we define "sin" in the context of living in sinless perfection?

Amanah · #4 05-16-2018, 08:37 AM

I was thinking similarly Aquila, what about

pride
sowing discord among brethren
impatience
gluttony
false accusations

I'm personally guilty of impatience and sometimes having a temper

Aquila · #5 05-16-2018, 09:59 AM

The trend I tend to see is that those who profess sinless perfection tend to lower the bar on what is defined as sin in a manner that makes it actually attainable. I knew a guy who cursed like a sailor, smoked, and had no issue with dirty jokes. But he'd argue that none of those things were violations of the Ten Commandments, and therefore, he argued that they were not sin. He professed sinless perfection. I'm not sure how these individuals approach the Lord in their daily prayers and supplications. Perhaps they joyously thank him for their sinless perfection and pray for assistance in maintaining it, in addition to their supplications.

On the other hand, I've known folks who argue that we sin every day. To them the slightest bit of anger, lust, pride, misspoken words, etc. are seen as missing the mark of God's absolute holy perfection. These repent daily before God, and seek His grace in all things. The only sinless perfection they profess is the imputed sinless righteousness of Christ, in which they believe themselves to stand. They do believe in growing in grace and sanctification. But they believe none of us will attain true sinless perfection until death or glorification. They believe that grace provides the shelter necessary under which one can grow in grace and sanctification without fear of condemnation for failures, sin, and struggles throughout this lifetime process of sanctification. These often claim to be "sinners saved by grace".

In my opinion... one can set the bar too low and claim sinless perfection rather easily. Or one can raise the bar too high and reduce all to being sinners who sin daily, if not hourly.

If I had to choose which side I'd align myself, with.... I'd choose the sinners saved by grace crowd.

Michael The Disciple · #6 05-16-2018, 10:43 AM

Why not align with Jesus?

Matt 5:48

Be ye therefore perfect EVEN AS your Father which is in Heaven is perfect.

People today talk like they want a move of God. Yet they teach we cannot even cease from sin. If thats where your faith is it will be so in your life.

Do not.....expect a move of God in your life or in a nation, or in the world until you are ready to obey Jesus at all cost.

Amanah · #7 05-16-2018, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Why not align with Jesus?

Matt 5:48

Be ye therefore perfect EVEN AS your Father which is in Heaven is perfect.

People today talk like they want a move of God. Yet they teach we cannot even cease from sin. If thats where your faith is it will be so in your life.

Do not.....expect a move of God in your life or in a nation, or in the world until you are ready to obey Jesus at all cost.

are you having a move of God sitting at home making UTube videos because you don't think anyone is good enough to fellowship with?

n david · #8 05-16-2018, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Eating that which is unhealthy is sin.

Breaking any law of man, for example speeding, jay walking, spitting on the sidewalk, is sin.

Speaking to a brother or sister irreverently is sin.

Jesting and jokes are sin,

I don't believe the above are biblical sins.

n david · #9 05-16-2018, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by consapente89

The first 2 options are both true. We absolutely can live above sin but the flesh will always be prone to it. If we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

I agree.

Apostolic1ness · #10 05-16-2018, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Why not align with Jesus?

Matt 5:48

Be ye therefore perfect EVEN AS your Father which is in Heaven is perfect.

People today talk like they want a move of God. Yet they teach we cannot even cease from sin. If thats where your faith is it will be so in your life.

Do not.....expect a move of God in your life or in a nation, or in the world until you are ready to obey Jesus at all cost.

Do you have a Pastor?