Cant be saved without a pastor

jediwill83 · #1 10-17-2017, 01:11 PM

Posted this in doctrines

I have an awesome pastor and attend an awesome church. I believe having a pastor is important and needed BUT I take issue with the doctrinal idea that you CANT be saved without a pastor.

First off I believe in preaching truth so when something is preached as an absolute and it isnt...it bothers me.

If there is any scenario where one can be saved without a pastor, you shouldnt preach that you CANT be saved without one...to me its dishonest.

TakingDominion · #2 10-17-2017, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Posted this in doctrines

I have an awesome pastor and attend an awesome church. I believe having a pastor is important and needed BUT I take issue with the doctrinal idea that you CANT be saved without a pastor.

First off I believe in preaching truth so when something is preached as an absolute and it isnt...it bothers me.

If there is any scenario where one can be saved without a pastor, you shouldnt preach that you CANT be saved without one...to me its dishonest.

you do need a pastor/elder/shepherd/preacher in your life..

Romans 10:14 and 17

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Aquila · #3 10-17-2017, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Posted this in doctrines

I have an awesome pastor and attend an awesome church. I believe having a pastor is important and needed BUT I take issue with the doctrinal idea that you CANT be saved without a pastor.

First off I believe in preaching truth so when something is preached as an absolute and it isnt...it bothers me.

If there is any scenario where one can be saved without a pastor, you shouldnt preach that you CANT be saved without one...to me its dishonest.

I agree with your take on this.

A pastor is absolutely beneficial to spiritual growth, learning, and counsel. But one can be saved without a pastor.

Frankly, I don't know a single Christian who doesn't have a pastor, elder, teacher, or brother/sister that they don't turn to or glean from for their understanding.

Amanah · #4 10-17-2017, 01:34 PM

All the members of the body of Christ are needed

1 Corinthians 12:12-27King James Version (KJV)
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Ephesians 4 says that the ministry is God's gift to the church for perfecting the saints.

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

So, if you are part of the body of Christ, God is going to provide ministry in your life. If you separate from the body and ministry of Christ, you are not going to make it.

Michael The Disciple · #5 10-17-2017, 02:01 PM

What if he gives you a Teacher or a Prophet? An Apostle or Evangelist?

n david · #6 10-17-2017, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakingDominion

you do need a pastor/elder/shepherd/preacher in your life..

Romans 10:14 and 17

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

I don't believe v 14 is specific to a "Pastor." The word is referring to a herald or someone who is preaching. It isn't limited to our title of Pastor.

n david · #7 10-17-2017, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Posted this in doctrines

I have an awesome pastor and attend an awesome church. I believe having a pastor is important and needed BUT I take issue with the doctrinal idea that you CANT be saved without a pastor.

First off I believe in preaching truth so when something is preached as an absolute and it isnt...it bothers me.

If there is any scenario where one can be saved without a pastor, you shouldnt preach that you CANT be saved without one...to me its dishonest.

It is God who saves, not the Pastor. To claim that no one can be saved without a Pastor not just limits God, but usurps His role entirely.

jediwill83 · #8 10-17-2017, 02:17 PM

No. Im not talking about giving people license to leave. See I thinl thats where this got started. It was a way to try and make people stay.

If you say that there is no way you can be saved without a pastor then if my pastor was to suddenly die and then I died before they found a replacement or the rapture took place, by that logic, no one in that church would make it.

You can scoff all you want but thats what I mean by confusing a pastor being needed and having a pastor being a 4th step in salvation.

Lets have another example.

Say we have street services, a family gets the HolyGhost right there on the street and wants to be baptized. They say,"Our house is right down the road,we can use our swimming pool!"

So these HolyGhost filled people are baptized in Jesus name and promise to come to church the next service but are killed on the way to church in a head on collision.

They have no pastor, havent even been to church but by that logic they are lost.

What about pastors in other countries who are executed and the church has to go into hiding?

They lost because they dont have a pastor?

How about we preach about why a pastor is needed and the benefits in having one instead of making blanket declarations that technically arent true?

Romans 10:14King James Version (KJV)

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

are you saying that Romans 10:14King James Version (KJV)

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Are you saying that it is a literal impossibility to not read and get a revelation of the Gospel without a preacher?

Of course Paul was writing like this. The only methods to communicate the gospel was in person and writing letters!

Someone had to go! They couldnt make a youtube video about salvation in 67 AD! and since someone had to go, the obvious method used was speaking!

You know, I have a heart, but Id be lying if I told someone,"There is no possible way for you to live without a heart."

Yes, a heart is needed but they use bypass machines all the time during surgery.

Instead I would have to say,"Unless there is some medical intervention, you cant live without a heart."

Im not making a mountain out of a molehill. I just believe we should have higher standards with what we say behind the pulpit and not just try to preach to get a certain resultor to modify behavior.

after all, if it ISNT the whole truth its a lie and scripture is VERY clear about where they end up.

jediwill83 · #9 10-17-2017, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

What if he gives you a Teacher or a Prophet? An Apostle or Evangelist?

oh wow...havent thought of that one!

Amanah · #10 10-17-2017, 02:34 PM

Jedi, I think some of the examples that you gave are seeds that are planted, but without ministry in their lives they eventually will fall by the wayside.

we are working together with God, one plants, one waters, but God gives the increase.