Universal Salvation

mfblume · #1 06-01-2007, 05:37 PM

There are those, like CrakJak, who believe everything ever damned will eventually be restored in salvation.

I strongly disagree with it, but let's discuss this. I want to tackle it and get into all the chapters that universal salvationists use.

They use Romans 5 and say that unless Christ's salvation restores EVERYONE, then Adam's sin was more powerful than Christ's redemption, since Adam made ALL MEN SINNERS.

Rico · #2 06-01-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

There are those, like CrakJak, who believe everything ever damned will eventually be restored in salvation.

I strongly disagree with it, but let's discuss this. I want to tackle it and get into all the chapters that universal salvationists use.

They use Romans 5 and say that unless Christ's salvation restores EVERYONE, then Adam's sin was more powerful than Christ's redemption, since Adam made ALL MEN SINNERS.

He's the only one that believes this around here, as far as I know.

mfblume · #3 06-01-2007, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico

He's the only one that believes this around here, as far as I know.

Oh. Might not get much traffic, I guess, eh?

crakjak · #4 06-01-2007, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

There are those, like CrakJak, who believe everything ever damned will eventually be restored in salvation.

I strongly disagree with it, but let's discuss this. I want to tackle it and get into all the chapters that universal salvationists use.

They use Romans 5 and say that unless Christ's salvation restores EVERYONE, then Adam's sin was more powerful than Christ's redemption, since Adam made ALL MEN SINNERS.

Thanks Bro. Blume, let's to it. How about this just to get it started, this is going to be fun, because when folks honestly look at all the evidence UR is difficult to deny.

(Rev. 20.11) Records White Throne Judgment, (Rev. 21.9)The New Jerusalem, then (Rev. 22.2) "In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life...yielding its fruit EVERY month. The leaves of the tree for the HEALING of the nations."

Apparently, the nations (peoples) are still being saved.

It seems God's purpose of purging, correcting and purifying continues. Chapter 21 says the gates of the city will never be closed, and that the kings of the earth will come into the city. Chapter 22.15 says there are "dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murders and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie", that are still in need of salvation, they are not in some hellhole.

The gates stay open, there are sinners outside and there are leaves for their healing available, the implication is that salvation is still in process. These facts also seem to support ultimate reconciliation for all.

Of course, if you are preterist, this is symbolism for the New Covenant age, which I tend to agree with. But it is problem for most, believers in endless torment.

Rico · #5 06-01-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Oh. Might not get much traffic, I guess, eh?

Probly from him, defending his belief. But I don't think there are others that believe this teaching, to be honest with you. But, it may turn out to be the argu.....er....discussion to end all discussions. Ya never can tell around here.

mfblume · #6 06-01-2007, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

Thanks Bro. Blume, let's to it.

(Rev. 20.11) Records White Throne Judgment, (Rev. 21.9)The New Jerusalem, then (Rev. 22.2) "In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life...yielding its fruit EVERY month. The leaves of the tree for the HEALING of the nations."

Apparently, the nations (peoples) are still being saved.

That is why I think this speaks of general salvation now.

I once taught a lesson about how Psalm 1 corresponds with Ezekiel 47 and Rev 22. Those who are saved are shown forth relying upon the Spirit that is shed forth ever since the day of Pentecost, as Peter termed it in Acts 2, like a river of living water.

The leaves represent the GIFTS for healing, and the fruit are the fruit of the Spirit. Leaves and fruit are noted in those who are like trees planted by the waters.

But Psalm 1 says this about universal or not:

Quote:

Psa 1:4-6 KJV The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. (5) Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. (6) For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

Those who come to salvation NOW are invited to come and drink of the water of life freely.

Quote:

Rev 22:17 KJV And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Joh 7:37-39 KJV In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. (38) He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (39) (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

So I regard this as a NOW thing, anyway.

Quote:

It seems God's purpose of purging, correcting and purifying continues.

Unless it is speaking of now, as I see it.

Quote:

Chapter 21 says the gates of the city will never be closed, and that the kings of the earth will come into the city. Chapter 22.15 says there are "dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murders and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie", that are still in need of salvation, they are not in some hellhole.

That is why I think this is NOW. Presently outside the City, the church (Heb 12:22), there are sinners. And the gates are open so they can get saved.

Quote:

The gates stay open, there are sinners outside and there are leaves for their healing available, the implication is that salvation is still in process. These facts also seem to support ultimate reconciliation for all.

Of course, if you are preterist, this is symbolism for the New Covenant age, which I tend to agree with. But it is problem for most, believers in endless torment.

Right, and you have a point with futurists.

crakjak · #7 06-01-2007, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico

He's the only one that believes this around here, as far as I know.

Univeral Reconcilation is being discovered in the scriptures from coast to coast. So if you don't believe it you better get to studying, because we are way ahead of you.

Gotta be out awhile, will check back late tonight.

Rico · #8 06-01-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

Univeral Reconcilation is being discovered in the scriptures from coast to coast. So if you don't believe it you better get to studying, because we are way ahead of you.

Gotta be out awhile, will check back late tonight.

No thanks. I avoid heresies at all costs.

crakjak · #9 06-01-2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico

No thanks. I avoid heresies at all costs.

Yeah, I understand.

crakjak · #10 06-01-2007, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

There are those, like CrakJak, who believe everything ever damned will eventually be restored in salvation.

I strongly disagree with it, but let's discuss this. I want to tackle it and get into all the chapters that universal salvationists use.

They use Romans 5 and say that unless Christ's salvation restores EVERYONE, then Adam's sin was more powerful than Christ's redemption, since Adam made ALL MEN SINNERS.

If you believe in endless torment. Please, show how billions of years of unbearable torment equals "just recompense" for a short life of sin. Take in to account that the condemned was born by no fault of his own, into a fallen world, with a highly developed deciever to decieve. Then take into account that Paul the apostle to the Gentiles never once threatens sinners with clarity of any threat of "endless" torment.

See ya, later.