My visit to a Messianic service yesterday

[KeptByTheWord]

Friends of ours invited me to visit a Messianic congregation that meets in a town nearby. I thought it would be interesting to go.

We arrived a bit late, and unfortunately the door that opened into the hall where they were meeting was at the front of the room, so we had to walk in where every one could see us. I almost turned and left at that point lol!

We had to walk through a group of ladies and girls who were all in skirts and who were in a circle, dancing to the song that was playing. Their dancing was very solemn and consisted mostly of waving their arms, and bowing and almost seemed ballerina-like. In fact, most of the girls or women were in slippers, socks or bare feet as they danced.

I asked my friends what the meaning was for the women to do this, and they weren't sure themselves.

The ladies' dance lasted about 45 minutes, which was terribly long. I was glad we were late when I realized that! The service started at 3, and we arrived around 3:30, and the ladies finished dancing at 3:45.

As soon as the ladies finished dancing, they all went to their seats and put prayer shawls or head coverings on their heads. Then a lot of Hebrew speaking and rituals were performed, one of which included everyone in the room turning east and repeating the Shemah (I think that is what it was called). Everyone stood during this time. Also, three portions of scriptures were read, one from the Torah (a passage in Leviticus), one from the prophets (Jeremiah), and one from the NT (Matthew).

After the Hebrew speaking, Bible portions, and several other things (not sure what they were, done in Hebrew) were done, everyone sat down, and the ladies took off their head coverings.

Then the leader of the group got up and began to speak. He was an excellent speaker, didn't need a microphone as his voice carried easily and well, and he was a great teacher, in that he spoke loud, clearly, and was easy to listen to.

I didn't understand or catch all of what he said, because many times he would say things in Hebrew. But, much of what he said was good, although a couple of things I disagreed with.

At one point, he specifically spoke against soul sleep, which I found interesting. He was quite adamant that there is no such thing as soul sleep teaching in the scriptures.

After the teaching ended, the ladies all put their head coverings on for the prayer and the blessing over the food.

Then the leader's wife invited me to the head of the line for the food, as I was a visitor. I tried to decline but she would not have it, so I graciously accepted. The food was wonderful, and many of the people in the congregation came by to introduce themselves and visit with our friends and I.

Overall, it was a pleasant experience. I certainly don't see what the reason could be for the women to do the dance for 45 minutes. Maybe someone here knows the significance behind that?

Anyway, I may or may not visit again. One thing that was certainly lacking was any opportunity for the spirit to move, which is sad to me. I see so many people that get caught up in their traditions and rituals of worship, and certainly are sincere about them, but there is never any room for the spirit of the Lord to move in their midst.

Anyway, just thought I would share my experience and wonder if anyone else has visited a Messianic gentile congregation, and what their experiences were. Our friends who I visited with have only been going a short time, and are still learning much themselves.

[Rudy]

Is this a mixture of Christianity and Judaism?

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Is this a mixture of Christianity and Judaism?

Yes, absolutely it is. They believe in Jesus being the Messiah, but also believe in the Sabbath, Torah, and obviously many other Jewish traditions as well.

[Michael The Disciple]

So did ONLY the women dance? Did the men wear headcoverings and if so did they remove them when they prayed or took part in ministry?

To bad they reject the teaching on soul sleep. Its exactly like Oneness. If you start with the Tanach you will find it. If you start with the New Testament you will not.

Most Messianics also find we must keep Sabbath and Festivals and believe either in Trinity or Arianism.

Personally I like the idea of using the Hebrew name "Yeshua" which they mostly do.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So did ONLY the women dance? Did the men wear headcoverings and if so did they remove them when they prayed or took part in ministry?

To bad they reject the teaching on soul sleep. Its exactly like Oneness. If you start with the Tanach you will find it. If you start with the New Testament you will not.

Most Messianics also find we must keep Sabbath and Festivals and believe either in Trinity or Arianism.

Personally I like the idea of using the Hebrew name "Yeshua" which they mostly do.

Yes, only the women and girls danced. The men just watched, which I found strange.

Only the leader or rabbi wore a little black hat. I don't think he ever took it on or off. Two other men plus the leader had a long white "scarf" with Hebrew writing on it, and also had four blue and white tassels hanging from their belt loops.

I think, from what they said, that they believe more like the Jehovah's Witness with the Father and the Son, and the spirit being shared between them and us, or something like that. ?? Hard to grasp everything in one visit.

I have no problem with using the name Yeshua, however I know the Lord answers to both. I don't see anywhere in scripture where you must call the Lord only by a Hebrew name.

On the soul sleep - the leader used Luke 16:19-31 to demonstrate that Jesus told many parables (he said a parable would always be understood as a parable when names were not mentioned). However, in the case of Lazarus and the rich man, he says it was not a parable because names were mentioned, therefore making it a story, and an event that happened. Therefore since this was an actual event that took place, this defeats the idea of soul sleep, because obviously the rich man and Lazarus were not asleep, but were knowledgeable of their surroundings. (This was how he taught it.)

[Michael The Disciple]

Only the leader or rabbi wore a little black hat. I don't think he ever took it on or off. Two other men plus the leader had a long white "scarf" with Hebrew writing on it, and also had four blue and white tassels hanging from their belt loops.

I attended a Messianic meeting years ago and wound up getting in trouble. I asked the leader why he was covering his head in the meeting. He got angry and started calling me names.

Then some people that came from our Church were caught handing out Oneness tracts. The leader got on the mic and warned the people against us saying we were spreading "deviant" doctrine.

I do honor our "Hebrew Roots" and am especially blessed by Messianic music and worship.

[Lafon]

IMHO there simply CANNOT be a TRUE "Messianic" Christian, that is to say, Jews who have believed in Christ Jesus as the promised "Son of God," for the TRUE descendants of the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have been rendered utterly incapable of recognizing or acknowledging Him as such!

Instead some of these descendants of Israel have been deceived into accepting what might rightly be called a "pseudo" Christ, that is, "another Jesus" as Paul wrote about in II Corinthians 11:3-4.

Please consider the following proclamations from God concerning Israel's state during the time that His judgment of gross spiritual blindness would rest upon their minds, and which effectively prevents them from proper discernment between truth and error, good and evil:

"The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart: and thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee." (Deuteronomy 28:28-29).

God, through the words of His prophet Jeremiah, warned the rebellious Jews when this "curse" would be imposed upon them, saying, "... in the day of their visitation they shall be cast down, saith the LORD" (Jeremiah 8:12).

We discover the actual imposition of this prophesied "curse" being rendered by the Lord Jesus Christ, when an occasion arose as He was about to enter into the city of Jerusalem, paused, and said, "If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! But NOW they are hid from thine eyes ... because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation" (see Luke 19:41-44).

At that moment God imposed a "spiritual" blindness upon that generation of Jews, a judgment which has remained in effect to the present day, and will continue in effect until His promised second "visit" (with limited exceptions, of course, that I will briefly mention).

This judgment of gross spiritual blindness did NOT mean that the ability of ever Jew was immediately rendered incapable of discerning between good and evil, truth and error, rather it meant that by the death of every member of that generation, then ALL Jews thereafter would experience its full impact. This is why we find Pater, in his first sermon, warning his Jewish audience, saying to them, "Save yourselves from this untoward generation" (Acts 2:40). Peter knew very well that after that present generation had passed away, then NO Jews thereafter could be saved. Such is the situation the present-day Jew is confronted with.

There is to come a moment in the future, when the period commonly known as the "times of the Gentiles" has come to its end, at which time the same judgment of gross "spiritual" blindness will be imposed upon every unrepentant Gentile (see Lamentations 1:21-22). At that time God will again turn His attention back to the Israeli people, even choosing 12,000 of them from each of their 12 tribes, and will cause them to be "sealed ... in their foreheads" (see Revelation 7:3-9); implying that these will be "sealed," just as have been, with the Holy Ghost. These will, of course, also be water baptized "in the name of the Lord Jesus," and become one of the "two witnesses" mentioned in Revelation 11:3 (comprised of both Jew and Gentile) who will prophesy for 1,260 days before being slain by the Anti-Christ and his deceived followers.

Much more could be said about these things, however, in writing this I pray that it be understood that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a "true" descendant of Israeli, at least at the present time, to possess a proper understanding of the identity of the "Son of God," that is, the same Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ in whom we have believed and been "sealed" with His Spirit and baptized in the waters of baptism "in his name." Therefore it MUST be concluded that the so called Messianic Christianity is nothing more tban a pseudo religion, and must be shunned.

As stated, In My Humble Opinion, submitted for your consideration of its merits.

[shazeep]

um...yikes?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Lafon

IMHO there simply CANNOT be a TRUE "Messianic" Christian, that is to say, Jews who have believed in Christ Jesus as the promised "Son of God," for the TRUE descendants of the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have been rendered utterly incapable of recognizing or acknowledging Him as such!

Instead some of these descendants of Israel have been deceived into accepting what might rightly be called a "pseudo" Christ, that is, "another Jesus" as Paul wrote about in II Corinthians 11:3-4.

Please consider the following proclamations from God concerning Israel's state during the time that His judgment of gross spiritual blindness would rest upon their minds, and which effectively prevents them from proper discernment between truth and error, good and evil:

"The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart: and thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee." (Deuteronomy 28:28-29).

God, through the words of His prophet Jeremiah, warned the rebellious Jews when this "curse" would be imposed upon them, saying, "... in the day of their visitation they shall be cast down, saith the LORD" (Jeremiah 8:12).

We discover the actual imposition of this prophesied "curse" being rendered by the Lord Jesus Christ, when an occasion arose as He was about to enter into the city of Jerusalem, paused, and said, "If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! But NOW they are hid from thine eyes ... because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation" (see Luke 19:41-44).

At that moment God imposed a "spiritual" blindness upon that generation of Jews, a judgment which has remained in effect to the present day, and will continue in effect until His promised second "visit" (with limited exceptions, of course, that I will briefly mention).

This judgment of gross spiritual blindness did NOT mean that the ability of ever Jew was immediately rendered incapable of discerning between good and evil, truth and error, rather it meant that by the death of every member of that generation, then ALL Jews thereafter would experience its full impact. This is why we find Pater, in his first sermon, warning his Jewish audience, saying to them, "Save yourselves from this untoward generation" (Acts 2:40). Peter knew very well that after that present generation had passed away, then NO Jews thereafter could be saved. Such is the situation the present-day Jew is confronted with.

There is to come a moment in the future, when the period commonly known as the "times of the Gentiles" has come to its end, at which time the same judgment of gross "spiritual" blindness will be imposed upon every unrepentant Gentile (see Lamentations 1:21-22). At that time God will again turn His attention back to the Israeli people, even choosing 12,000 of them from each of their 12 tribes, and will cause them to be "sealed ... in their foreheads" (see Revelation 7:3-9); implying that these will be "sealed," just as have been, with the Holy Ghost. These will, of course, also be water baptized "in the name of the Lord Jesus," and become one of the "two witnesses" mentioned in Revelation 11:3 (comprised of both Jew and Gentile) who will prophesy for 1,260 days before being slain by the Anti-Christ and his deceived followers.

Much more could be said about these things, however, in writing this I pray that it be understood that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a "true" descendant of Israeli, at least at the present time, to possess a proper understanding of the identity of the "Son of God," that is, the same Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ in whom we have believed and been "sealed" with His Spirit and baptized in the waters of baptism "in his name." Therefore it MUST be concluded that the so called Messianic Christianity is nothing more tban a pseudo religion, and must be shunned.

As stated, In My Humble Opinion, submitted for your consideration of its merits.

Sorry to see you write such a thing. While MOST "Christian" type religons do present a false Christ even as we speak I have heard over the years there are "Oneness" Apostolic Churches in Jerusalem.

How close "Oneness Pentecostal" is to the faith once delivered would be yet another discussion.

[Esaias]

The descendants of Jacob have recognized Christ. That is in fact the bulk of the history of Christianity.

Modern Jews for the most reject Christ because their religion is Pharisaism (literally). Most Jews/"Israelis" are no more related to Jacob than most Chinese are (per history and their own admissions even).