Apostolic but not Oneness?

[Patrick Harris]

I'm a minister, Pentecostal, fully believing everything we need to know about what the church needs to return to can be found in The Acts of the Apostles.
My wife and I have been attending an UPCI church for the past year because I truly believe that is where God has placed us. We both love and support our church and our Pastor 100%.
The difference is that we are not Oneness, I've read Dr. Bernard books and I can no longer say with certainty that I follow the path of being Trinitarian, but have not crossed that bridge to Oneness.
However, today I just listened to Dr. Bernard's message titled "Restoring the Apostolic Church" and there was not one thing in that message I didn't fully support or agree with.
The question is this: Can you be considered Apostolic, in your faith, without being Oneness?

[Rudy]

IMO I don't see how.

[Jito463]

Since the term Apostolic means one who practices the teachings of the apostles - and being one who believes the apostles did not teach a trinity, but one true God as all Jewish people believe - I would have to say no. Pentecostal perhaps, but not Apostolic.

Perhaps a few titles you can look into, would be

Ancient Champions of Oneness - William B. Chalfant
Oneness and Trinity: a.d. 100-300 - David Bernard
The Trinitarian Controversy in the Fourth Century - David Bernard
A Handbook of Basic Doctrines - David Bernard
(I love this one personally, as it's nothing but scripture references, no exposition)

Then there's the 'History of Christian Doctrine' volumes 1-3, also by David Bernard (what can I say, he writes a lot of books, so it's not uncommon I'd reference him a lot). Volume 1 is predominantly about the old church, post-Apostolic. Volume 2 covers the ground between, leading up to current times. Volume 3 is about modern day, starting around the beginning of the 20th century and the revival of the Pentecostal movement that began in the book of Acts.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Patrick Harris

I'm a minister, Pentecostal, fully believing everything we need to know about what the church needs to return to can be found in The Acts of the Apostles.
My wife and I have been attending an UPCI church for the past year because I truly believe that is where God has placed us. We both love and support our church and our Pastor 100%.
The difference is that we are not Oneness, I've read Dr. Bernard books and I can no longer say with certainty that I follow the path of being Trinitarian, but have not crossed that bridge to Oneness.
However, today I just listened to Dr. Bernard's message titled "Restoring the Apostolic Church" and there was not one thing in that message I didn't fully support or agree with.
The question is this: Can you be considered Apostolic, in your faith, without being Oneness?

That is a very unanswerable question simply because it all depends on how one defines Apostolic

On a side note. I recommend reading other sources besides bernards books

start with www.onenesspentecostal.com

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That is a very unanswerable question simply because it all depends on how one defines Apostolic

On a side note. I recommend reading other sources besides bernards books

start with www.onenesspentecostal.com

Thanks for that link, Praxeas. I'm always up for finding more sources to read. I'll check it out later when I have some more time. As an aside, I forgot another good book (albeit a short one, and not without some flaws). 'Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus' by Gordon Magee. I think there's even a free PDF version of it available online, but I could be mistaken. I'll have to look for it again.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Patrick Harris

I'm a minister, Pentecostal, fully believing everything we need to know about what the church needs to return to can be found in The Acts of the Apostles.
My wife and I have been attending an UPCI church for the past year because I truly believe that is where God has placed us. We both love and support our church and our Pastor 100%.
The difference is that we are not Oneness, I've read Dr. Bernard books and I can no longer say with certainty that I follow the path of being Trinitarian, but have not crossed that bridge to Oneness.
However, today I just listened to Dr. Bernard's message titled "Restoring the Apostolic Church" and there was not one thing in that message I didn't fully support or agree with.
The question is this: Can you be considered Apostolic, in your faith, without being Oneness?

Exactly what is keeping you from being Oneness? I was in the same boat as you back in 1980.

[Patrick Harris]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Exactly what is keeping you from being Oneness? I was in the same boat as you back in 1980.

Honestly, not much.
I don't make decisions quickly and without a lot of prayer and study.
I've never considered the trinity a "hill to die on" so I'm a little more open to changing my mind on the subject.

The pastor and I have actually had several conversations on it.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Patrick Harris

I'm a minister, Pentecostal, fully believing everything we need to know about what the church needs to return to can be found in The Acts of the Apostles.
My wife and I have been attending an UPCI church for the past year because I truly believe that is where God has placed us. We both love and support our church and our Pastor 100%.
The difference is that we are not Oneness, I've read Dr. Bernard books and I can no longer say with certainty that I follow the path of being Trinitarian, but have not crossed that bridge to Oneness.
However, today I just listened to Dr. Bernard's message titled "Restoring the Apostolic Church" and there was not one thing in that message I didn't fully support or agree with.
The question is this: Can you be considered Apostolic, in your faith, without being Oneness?

Who are any of us to say? You do not believe in three Gods (and probably never did as most Trinitarians do not). Though I've never heard you explain your idea of the Godhead, I would not doubt that it would pass the "Oneness litmus test" of some on here. It seems you are trying to be a "Strict Constructionist" (hint hint) at least.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Patrick Harris

Honestly, not much.
I don't make decisions quickly and without a lot of prayer and study.

Smart man. God would not want you to be any other way. ALWAYS keep that attitude on EVERY doctrine. That's why many of us on here are outcasts. We do not rebel, but we reserve the right to prayerfully come to our own conclusions about things. That is just too much for some pastors to tolerate.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Patrick Harris

Honestly, not much.
I don't make decisions quickly and without a lot of prayer and study.
I've never considered the trinity a "hill to die on" so I'm a little more open to changing my mind on the subject.

The pastor and I have actually had several conversations on it.

What questions do you have?