Revelation Chapters 21 and 22... later 19 and 20

Revelationist · #1 05-26-2007, 08:45 PM

It's been requested that a thread on these chapters be started. So her it is.

Rev 21:1
21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
KJV

The first verse starts out with a new heaven and a new earth. The first heaven and first earth were passed away.

To understand this, we have to go back to Pauls teaching.

2 Cor 5:17
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
KJV

We have no problem understanding that Paul was talking about becoming a new man in Christ.

Eph 4:24
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
KJV

Gal 6:15
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
KJV

And that we become a new creature.

Acts 2:13
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
KJV

We drink of the new wine.

But, we often over look the fact that "ALL" things become new. It stands to reason that the Heavens and Earth also become new if "ALL" things become new. In fact, it's a brand new world living for God.

mizpeh · #2 05-26-2007, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelationist

It's been requested that a thread on these chapters be started. So her it is.

Rev 21:1
21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
KJV

The first verse starts out with a new heaven and a new earth. The first heaven and first earth were passed away.

To understand this, we have to go back to Pauls teaching.

2 Cor 5:17
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
KJV

We have no problem understanding that Paul was talking about becoming a new man in Christ.

Eph 4:24
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
KJV

Gal 6:15
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
KJV

And that we become a new creature.

Acts 2:13
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
KJV

We drink of the new wine.

But, we often over look the fact that "ALL" things become new. It stands to reason that the Heavens and Earth also become new if "ALL" things become new. In fact, it's a brand new world living for God.

Are you saying the heavens and earth became new for you when you were born again?

What about the verses at the end of the book of Revelation 22:18-19?

Revelationist · #3 05-26-2007, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Are you saying the heavens and earth became new for you when you were born again?

What about the verses at the end of the book of Revelation 22:18-19?

I'm afraid that they mean what they say. It's important that we continue steadfastly in the Apostles doctrine in every way, lest we also find ourselves a castaway.

mizpeh · #4 05-26-2007, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelationist

I'm afraid that they mean what they say. It's important that we continue steadfastly in the Apostles doctrine in every way, lest we also find ourselves a castaway.

I've always taken a more literal reading of the scriptures unless proven to be symbolic. I'm wondering if we were living under the OT right now, how you would interpret the many messianic prophecies. I work with a Jew who does not believe in a literal 'Messiah'.

mfblume · #5 05-26-2007, 11:10 PM

Revelationsit, here is a great verse to explain what is meant by new heavens and earth.

Quote:

Isa 51:16 KJV And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

mfblume · #6 05-27-2007, 12:54 PM

Here's my take on those chapters. I say they are future. And full preterists argue and say we cannot say ALL of Revelaiton was to shortly come to pass if Rev 20 -22 are future.

Revelation was concentrating upon the issue close to John's day. All preterists agree. The OPENNESS of the sealed book, disallowed to be sealed, in Rev 22:10 in light of Daniel's command only 400 years earlier to SEAL the book because the time was for the END proves that the events had to occur less that hundreds of years, let alone thousands.

But there is nothing wrong with referring to some implicated events that would occur thousands of years later in reflection upon the destruction of OLD Jerusalem, while maintaining the crux of the wrath was definitely to occur AT HAND.

What is wrong with leaving the point of the wrath of God in the first century in destroying the OLD Jerusalem and mentioning the FATE OF THE NEW? It is like a contrast. The issue at hand was Jerusalem's demise. And God simply showed John the OTHER JERUSALEM, that is THE NEW, and noted how it will continue for eternity. It changes nothing about the main overall issue being wrath which would come to pass in the first century.

Again: Christ's coming in Rev 22:12 is speaking of the coming of destruction in AD70. The context shows the New Jerusalem completed in our future, and while mentioning this, John wrote that Jesus would come shortly in destruction from the time he wrote after simply mentioning all that would occur. He said, in effect, knowing about all the wrath of God against Israel and Jerusalem, and knowing that the NEW JERUSALEM is all that will remain, get ready and ensure you do not miss this, just as Matthew 24 warned the people of the AD70 destruction to not be left smiting one another and in drunkenness. You want to remain oustide that wrath and enjoy the UNENDING NEW JERUSALEM.

Truthseeker · #7 05-27-2007, 04:15 PM

It's clear in scirpture the New jerusalem city is the now presen church. So it that is the case then we must be in the new heavens and earth.

Revelationist · #8 05-27-2007, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Revelationsit, here is a great verse to explain what is meant by new heavens and earth.

Thanks Bro. Blume

Jerry Moon

Revelationist · #9 05-27-2007, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

It's clear in scirpture the New jerusalem city is the now presen church. So it that is the case then we must be in the new heavens and earth.

That's the reason why Peter Preached this..

Acts 2:16
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
KJV

He said that this is that... Not Azusa Street was that, but that which they were seeing that day.

Acts 2:20
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
KJV

The old things were passing away, and now for new heavens and earth.

Jerry Moon

Revelationist · #10 05-27-2007, 09:45 PM

Remember in Revelation 1:1 John said that this was a Revelation of Jesus Christ, and starting with Revelation 20, we have a Revelation of Jesus Christ.

When Saul was persecuting the church, Jesus said, I am Jesus whom thou persecuteth. Or, the church, the body of Christ. This is now a Revelation of the body of Christ.

Jerry Moon