Have We Been Trained NOT To Win Souls?

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by tv1a

AYR, The idea is preposterous saying the church shouldn't run like a business. It takes money to survive. That's not taking away from the miraculous power of God. It just a lot of time we can see God's miracle through finances.

If your premises is the church not worry about money and rely only on God, I would expect the church would stop selling peanut brittle and Easter candy on the holidays. Just a thought. The church shouldn't be thinking about money. It cost money for the fuel for the bus. Insurance for the drivers. Just as Christ was running His Father's business, we have the same responsibility.

Here is the key to running the Father's business, seeking first the kingdom of God and His righteousness will open up everything you need. If you understood what the Kingdom of God is about and what righteousness is about, you wouldn't have a problem with ministry operated as a business.

Back to the rich young ruler, money was his God. Did Jesus tell Zacchaous he had to sell everything and give it the poor? Zaccheous volunteer to pay the people he cheated back with interest. Jesus didn't tell Z-man that's not good enough, get rid of it all.

I fully understand what seeking first the Kingdom of God is....and truly money has little part in it. I do understand it takes money to survive, but the church has survived without the mortgages/interest, the insurance, the utilities, the pulpits, the electronics, the fancy monitors, padded pews, air conditioning since the Cross of Christ.
Preachers have long preached in brush arbors, on tree stumps, large rocks, hills and the Glory of God still fell on the people.

As for your analogy of the rich young ruler, Jesus likewise told others what He wanted them to do. Many of these people were not rich at all. This included the disciples. Jesus told each one what they were to do to follow Him. Peter looked at John and asked Jesus "What is he to do"? Jesus answered "What is that to thee? Follow thou me".


Many pastors do not tell people to follow Christ, except if they know they have some level of control over them and their finances.

Trouble is... too many church assemblies make money to be their God. You know it and I know it. I've seen too many churches be bitter enemies because one church took away too many of their tithe payers. I've seen churches build bigger and fancier churches than they can afford. I've seen pastors and church paid ministers buy $30,000 + automobiles when one costing $20,000 or less would be sufficient. And I've seen them do it every couple years. I've heard about a pastor who almost had a falling out with a certain family in his church over his wanting to buy a certain home for sale in the area. It got so bad that they almost had to leave that church. The pastor won the fight over an ignorant house. The other people who wanted to buy it had the wisdom to let it go and the pastor did not. I knew of a pastor who raided the building fund so he could take his family on vacation to a very expensive place. It escalated until the church ended up splitting. I've been in prayer meetings where the senior lady would tell us to pray "for tithe paying families". HuH? What happened to praying for people's souls whether they could tithe or not? I could go on and on.

Christ truly lived on what our Father provided. Paul was a perfect example. He traveled and supplied his own needs (and others) making tents while he taught the things of the Kingdom of God.

I'm sorry but I reject the idea that Jesus ran his ministry like a business, unless I see chapter and verse. I would think that if Jesus did have any money, he would not have had to get someone to take coin out of the fish mouth to pay Caesar's taxes. Sorry, but the Bible simply does not prove this theory of yours. Perhaps he did not want finances to take away the real message of God's ability to provide for his Saints needs.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by tv1a

First of all you read way too much into what I said. I said Jesus treated ministry like a business. I didn't suggest Christ strong armed or coerced people into giving.

What makes you think Jesus didn't have business meetings?

It takes money to feed the poor. It takes money to print tracts, advertise church events. It takes money to pay the electric bill. How do you pay for the pews you sit on? Solomon says money answers all things. There is nothing wrong with business meetings, books, records and salaries. Business meetings and accurate bookkeeping shows accountability in the funds Christ has entrusted you with.

And I did not say you did. I said many churches do it.
What makes you think Jesus did have business meetings?

The churches I've been in did not feed the poor. If there was a need, they asked folks to bring something out of their freezer. Just think. The thousands of dollars that pay the banks + interest, the enormous utility bills and all the other nicities that give comfort to the people who attend there could mean the life, health and shelter to unfortunate families in this economic disaster we face.

Why do we need tracts? If we were doing our job, word of mouth is free and abundant. Not to mention that God can move on people to make their way to a service when they hear about great services and the power of the Holy Ghost changing lives.

Solomon says money answers all things?

Truth be told, Solomon also failed God by disregarding many of God's commands and he whored after other gods. He died a fallen man. He ended up doing evil in the sight of the Lord. I Kings Chapter 11.

Why would I want to listen to Solomon knowing his end?

And I rather am touched by the Words of Jesus:
And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

(Luke 18:27)

The pews we sit on are only a comfort. Maybe the church needs a little discomfort?

Business meetings? Sure I can agree that there is nothing wrong with having them. But is this what Christ set an example for us to do? Nah.I do not see anything in scripture where he instructed the disciples to build buildings, bring in the dough through preaching and keep a portion for themselves and call it a tithe. There are always going to be the ones who do all the giving and the ones who do all the receiving. It causes problems.

When the early church did live common, it failed!

But we do not see such principles of common living being practiced in our organized church system today. A few benefit monetarily. The rest do the giving.

There may be benevolent funds in Apostolic churches somewhere else in this country, but I haven't seen a benevolent fund in any Apostolic church here in this area except in non apostolic trinitarian churches.