In conversation with my godsister this afternoon (she's from a conservative church in another state), she mentioned several times her opinion that those who were making the stand to turn in their credentials were doing so because "they hear a clear and certain sound."
After she said this a number of times, I said, "But those who support Res 4 believe they have heard a clear and certain sound...who is right?!"
The fact is that there are good men of God on both sides if this issue.
Not every man who walks away from the org does so because they feel superior, nor is everyone for television advertising a carnal compromiser.
Each one believes they are following the will of God...but who is right?!
In conversation with my godsister this afternoon (she's from a conservative church in another state), she mentioned several times her opinion that those who were making the stand to turn in their credentials were doing so because "they hear a clear and certain sound."
After she said this a number of times, I said, "But those who support Res 4 believe they have heard a clear and certain sound...who is right?!"
The fact is that there are good men of God on both sides if this issue.
Not every man who walks away from the org does so because they feel superior, nor is everyone for television advertising a carnal compromiser.
Each one believes they are following the will of God...but who is right?!
Who has the clear and certain sound?!
Every man will say, "I do!! Follow me!!"
But how do we really know for sure?!
IF there is a clear and certain sound it may be their conscience in which case they could both be right. IF some chose to leave and organize with those of like convictions then fine. However, if any hear a clear and certain sound to stop fellowship with anyone who does not agree with their interpretation of standards then I fear they are listening to a stranger's voice.
The whole situation, in my opinion, goes against the principle of unity that the UPCI was formed. People have talked about this great divide in ultra-cons and liberals, but I spoke to an ultra-con today who had no idea this was happening.
She certainly wasn't a newby and has attending a UPC church for over 30 years. She was my Aunt Betty and when I talked to her after my uncle's funeral today to get an idea of what she thought of the passing of Res. # 4 and the fallout, she was shocked.
She looked at me and said, "Do you mean that men of God would actually leave the organization because other ministers would advertise or broadcast their sermons?" Granted, she has lived in Cisco, TX all of her adult life, but she has walked the walk and has lived closer to God than anyone I have ever known; not judgmental in the least and has loved everyone with the love of Jesus. It really made me stop and think after our talk if this was something that God had ordained or was this the outcome of mens' pride and ambition.
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Isaiah 53:5: "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."(KJV)
"God sends no one away empty except those who are full of themselves." Dwight L. Moody
You are on the money. I am UPC, have been all my life and plan on it for the rest of my life! There have always been things we did't agree with on another on. I personally believe in Christian liberty. I grant my brethren that right!
We have so much more in common than we do not, let's remember that! Bro. Tenney says, "I'll fellowship you on the 95% I agree with you on and pray for you on the 5% I don't"! Can't we all just get along!
There is such a big world out there that needs God...and we fight over such foolishness! Big over reaction if you ask me!
And if, you must leave due to your conviction...fine. I pray you do well in your future endeavors...I mean that! But, as long as you leave as a friend, not an enemy!
Each one believes they are following the will of God...but who is right?!
Who has the clear and certain sound?!
Every man will say, "I do!! Follow me!!"
But how do we really know for sure?!
Barb, I'm sure you realize that your questions go much deeper than any one issue, such as TV. And their application is much broader than just the UPCI, or even Oneness Pentecostals, or even Christianity!
There are many who have questions like these, and have never seen good answers, and very few will even try to answer them. I have asked similar questions on other threads, and they are usually ignored or answered pretty lamely. To be fair, a few answers were quite thoughtful, but still unsatisfying (to me, anyway).
I still believe that it boils down to one thing: we believe what we want to believe. Nobody denies that some people (choose whatever "lost" group of people you want: atheists, Muslims, Baptists) believe -- and truly believe -- differently from Apostolics. Not to mention the variety of beliefs (sometimes as different as night and day) even within the Apostolic world! Indeed, who is right, and who is wrong? Apostolics (and others) try to prove they are right using the Bible. But even starting from the point of view that the Bible is God's Word, inspired and infallible, the variants of interpretation are astonishing. No clear winner, there, no matter how hard someone yells that their conclusion is obvious. It's not. Not even the most basic and vitally important of doctrines. Weird, isn't it?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
In conversation with my godsister this afternoon (she's from a conservative church in another state), she mentioned several times her opinion that those who were making the stand to turn in their credentials were doing so because "they hear a clear and certain sound."
After she said this a number of times, I said, "But those who support Res 4 believe they have heard a clear and certain sound...who is right?!"
The fact is that there are good men of God on both sides if this issue.
Not every man who walks away from the org does so because they feel superior, nor is everyone for television advertising a carnal compromiser.
Each one believes they are following the will of God...but who is right?!
Who has the clear and certain sound?!
Every man will say, "I do!! Follow me!!"
But how do we really know for sure?!
I'm sure both do hear a clear and certain sound. I have been on both sides of this debate at different times in my life. For 16 years, I would have been hearing the clear and certain sound of the conseratives. The difference is that both clear and certain sounds are coming from differing interpretations of scripture. The difference is subtle and for many, they are just following what they have been taught and believe to be right. For example, Deut 22:5 sayd that a man shall not wear that which pertains to a woman. Some will say this is a clear and certain sound for women not to wear pants. Others will say it says nothing of pants or skirts but the wearing of the apparel of the opposite sex. (I am using this as an example as I understand you are referring to the TV issue.)
Some are hearing the clear and certain sound of tradition.
Some are hearing the clear and certain sound of revelation.
In conversation with my godsister this afternoon (she's from a conservative church in another state), she mentioned several times her opinion that those who were making the stand to turn in their credentials were doing so because "they hear a clear and certain sound."
After she said this a number of times, I said, "But those who support Res 4 believe they have heard a clear and certain sound...who is right?!"
The fact is that there are good men of God on both sides if this issue.
Not every man who walks away from the org does so because they feel superior, nor is everyone for television advertising a carnal compromiser.
Each one believes they are following the will of God...but who is right?!
Who has the clear and certain sound
Every man will say, "I do!! Follow me!!"
But how do we really know for sure?!
When it comes to disputable matters we must let scripture be our guide,
the weaker brother (bothered by more things) is not to judge the stronger brother with more liberty, the brother with more liberty is not to dispise the weaker brother.
Brothers that are doing their service can have differing convictions about these matters and still both be right with God.
The issue is how to deal with the differences, the weaker brother is not to judge and the stronger one is not despise the weaker brother, but accept that we are the Lord's and He is will guide.
Romans 14:5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;[a] and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.
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My personal mission is to BRING people into a right relationship with God, GROW them up to maturity and SEND them back into the world to minister.
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