Baptism for salvation questions

These questions are for the Oneness folks who believe that without the correct baptism "In the name of Jesus" there is no salvation.

If "Jesus name" baptism is the only baptism to be saved.....


1. what happens to all the people that lived and died before 1913 when the Jesus name baptism "reemerge" in modern times?

2. why was this saving baptism hidden from the world, if its the only baptism that can save us?

Thank you in advance.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Believer

These questions are for the Oneness folks who believe that without the correct baptism "In the name of Jesus" there is no salvation.

If "Jesus name" baptism is the only baptism to be saved.....


1. what happens to all the people that lived and died before 1913 when the Jesus name baptism "reemerge" in modern times?

They died in their sins.

2. why was this saving baptism hidden from the world, if its the only baptism that can save us?

This saving baptism is plain for all to read in the Bible. It's hidden to those who don't want to see it.

You're Trinitarian, right? This is taken from the Nicene Creed:

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins;
and I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/nicene.htm

Obviously then, you must believe baptism is for the remission of sins.

Now the question is; Did the early church baptize in the name of Jesus Christ?

I have read that they did until it was changed later in the 2nd century.

The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son & Holy Ghost by the Catholic Church in the Second Century. – 11th Edit., Vol. 3, ppg. 365-366.

http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/name.htm

[seguidordejesus]

I thought this thread was closed

[Praxeas]

I don't know, however I have to wonder how questions that appeal to ones emotion determine what the bible says is truth?

I might also ask about all those that died before Martin Luther "rediscovered" salvation by grace alone through faith alone etc etc

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

They died in their sins.

Man, you're getting a little harsh there aren't you Mizpeh?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

Man, you're getting a little harsh there aren't you Mizpeh?

Many Trinitarians believe those who don't believe in the Trinity are lost. That view is considered harsh as well, I suppose.

Bob, I believe baptism in Jesus' name is for the remission of sins not because of the remission of sins. Jesus died to take away the sins of the world. If one is not baptized in his name, they are still in their sins. To not have one's sins remitted defeats the whole purpose of why Jesus came into the world.

How can I make that any more palatable for you? If I did try to sugar coat it I would be dishonest.

[Adino]

If "Jesus name" baptism is the only baptism to be saved.....

1. what happens to all the people that lived and died before 1913 when the Jesus name baptism "reemerge" in modern times?

When one understands that baptism has nothing to do with salvation before God the question of invocation becomes academic.

2. why was this saving baptism hidden from the world, if its the only baptism that can save us?

While I do hold that baptism is not part of the Gospel, not saving as relating to the soul, and is not the occasion for sin remission, I still see plenty of evidence to hold that it should be performed by using the "Jesus Name" invocation and that it was not "hidden from the world" until recent times. NT saving faith was to be directed to God THROUGH Christ. Baptism was the time when an individual was to openly declare his repentance and faith in Jesus Christ.

Even trinitarians baptized using the Jesus name invocation. In fact, Frank Ewart began looking deeper into the nature of God only after hearing a trinitarian man, R.E. McAlister, preach a message on Jesus name baptism. McAlister, however, in no way connected this topic with the nature of God. He was using the issue to head off a growing heresy in the church which demanded that a baptismal candidate be dunked three distinct times rather than simply once.

A quick note concerning men prior to Luther and justification by faith alone:

It's my impression that Luther began to realize justification by faith alone when reading the works of Augustine (354-430AD). I suggest a book by Thomas Oden called the Justification Reader for examples of the justification by faith position from the time of Christ to Luther. If I remember correctly, Oden gets much of his information from Vatican archives which had not been released for translation unto recent years. Prior witnesses agreeing with Luther's ultimate realization were abundant.

Originally Posted by Believer

These questions are for the Oneness folks who believe that without the correct baptism "In the name of Jesus" there is no salvation.

If "Jesus name" baptism is the only baptism to be saved.....


1. what happens to all the people that lived and died before 1913 when the Jesus name baptism "reemerge" in modern times?

2. why was this saving baptism hidden from the world, if its the only baptism that can save us?

Thank you in advance.

Baptism in Jesus name is necessary.

But,...there is a verse for those kind of people.

2 Peter 2:21 (KJV)
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.


This verse sound more ....they have a chance than to those people that been enlighten and turn around the truth.

blessings,

Some how God will give you the measure of understanding. I quess....it's up to you how to respond. We can take it or leave it. I don't think God will punished those people that are not been enlighten of His word.

God will always weigh the spirit of truth. If we know the forbidden to us called truth or you can call it law? Which you prefer? Law or Truth are the same. According to the book of ......

Psalm 119:142 (KJV)
Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.


blessings,

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Adino

A quick note concerning men prior to Luther and justification by faith alone:

It's my impression that Luther began to realize justification by faith alone when reading the works of Augustine (354-430AD). I suggest a book by Thomas Oden called the Justification Reader for examples of the justification by faith position from the time of Christ to Luther. If I remember correctly, Oden gets much of his information from Vatican archives which had not been released for translation unto recent years. Prior witnesses agreeing with Luther's ultimate realization were abundant.

Thanks for recommending this reference book. I'm taking an Western Civ class this semester and I might use it for one of my book reports.

Adino, it's easy to spin justification by faith and disregard baptism. You say you can explain away the scriptures that are clear on the necessity of baptismal regeneration, I don't see how you can do it convincingly. I know none of the Trinitarians I've talked to have been able to do it. I think all the verses on justification and baptism harmonize much better with the PAJC view of salvation.

I'm going to go back to your thread called Sinful Union this week and finish reading it. Maybe we can discuss our differences some more there.