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Old 06-25-2013, 08:51 PM
NewbieMisfits NewbieMisfits is offline
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Arrow Your Definition of "True Repentance" please

Well... the thread pretty much sums it up.

What is yours, or your scriptural definition of true repentance?

I ask as I've been trying for a solid week now to repent, it the most formost thought of nearly every minure of every day.... but I just don't feel it.

Shouldn't there be something...?

I've been working on the proper discipline for 4+ years now. I honestly feel I finally gained it (yes I do honestly feel that), but I just can't figure out true repentance....
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:08 AM
NewbieMisfits NewbieMisfits is offline
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Re: Your Definition of "True Repentance" please

Not one out of 42 huh? This is a tricky one.

Maybe a better example of what I know...
Raised Baptist "but only Baptist on Sundays": If you are truly sorry, then say a prayer and (tada) you're saved. Nothing changes.
Learning from Menno's "legalism": Have you cleansed yourself to point of being worthy to be saved? (Answer was always no by their definition, but is what both us misfits were working on for years, even long after departing the Menno's)

So, I guess I'm just wanting a few examples of what it was like when you knew you had truly repented and became "saved".
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:22 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Your Definition of "True Repentance" please

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, (Heb 6:1)

Dead works: works of death, works that do not produce life, works that do not spring from the Life of Christ by the Spirit in a person's life.

2 Kinds of dead works - sin, and dead religious works.

Sin defined:

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4

A note about repentance :

2 Corinthians 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. 11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

Notice that 'sorrow' can lead to repentance. Sorrow is an emotional state, repentance is an ACT. Repentance is not a feeling in itself, it is an ACTION, a choice, a course of decision regarding something. When a person realizes they have done wrong, and are not walking as the Lord wills, they are sorrowful for it, and if it is godly sorrow, it leads them to take action to correct the matter. Godly sorrow causes a man to be careful (ie to take care, to be diligent) about clearing himself with God. It leads to indignation against sin and disobedience, it leads a man to have vehement desire to do the right thing, to fear to displease God, to have zeal in pursuing righteousness, to take revenge on disobedience against God. In other words, godly sorrow leads a person to QUIT SINNING AGAINST GOD. That is 'repentance'.

Sin is transgression of the law. The law is summed up in two 'great commands', to love God with all the heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. All the various commandments of God are simply expressions of those two great commandments in various circumstances and situations. The various commandments of God reveal how to love God with all one's being, and how to love one's neighbor as oneself.

1. No other gods before the True God.
2. No idol worship.
3. No profaning the Lord's name.
4. Remember the sabbath day.
5. Honour your parents.
6. No committing murder.
7. No adultery.
8. No thieving.
9. No slandering, libeling, or otherwise bearing false witness against others.
10. No coveting that which belongs to another.

In the Sermon on the mount (Matthew 5) Jesus explained the true scope of many of these commands, showing they are not limited to outward actions but also to the inward motions of the heart. Hate = murder, unlawful lust = adultery, etc.

So, if you are breaking God's commands, if you are doing what you know to be contrary to the revealed will of God, then STOP. Clear yourself by changing your choice. Choose instead to love God and love your neighbor.

The other category of dead works from which we must repent is religious works that have no life.

the entire book of Romans deals largely with that topic, showing that the outward keeping of the old covenant does not avail with God, only a new creature producing obedience by the power of the Spirit of Christ avails anything.

See for example: Romans 2, 3, 4.

Also consider the entirety of Romans 8.

Now, very few people have a problem with attempting to be justified in the sight of God by 'keeping the law' for the old covenant has been done away with, there is no temple, priesthood, etc so it would be impossible to keep the law anyway. But there is another problem that arises:

Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (Colossians 2:23)

This verse may be difficult to understand in the King James, try this:

These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence. (NASB)

People often invent their own forms of religion by which they imagine they will please God and 'discipline' themselves. But such things are attempts by the flesh, and although they appear to be wise, they do not succeed in truly mortifying the flesh. that can only be done through the Holy Ghost:

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Religion that is not based upon faith is a religion of dead works, and must be repented of.

What is 'faith', then? Literally, it means to commit oneself to God, to trust in God. More than mere intellectual assent, it is a conviction of truth that impels action.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6 Nothing done apart from faith is pleasing to God.


And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Romans 14:23 Paul is peaking about vegetarianism vs meat eating here, but applies a biblical pinciple - whatsoever is apart from faith is sin.

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17 biblical faith comes by hearing, and that hearing comes by the Word of God. Thus, faith not founded on the Word of God is delusion, and not real faith.

Whatever one has been doing that is not of faith must, therefore, be repented of. STOP DOING IT, and start trusting God according to his Word.

This may mean to repent from looking for a 'feeling' as an excuse to not actually repent, or it may simply mean repenting from walking in ignorance of some Biblical truth now understood.

Repentance is not passive, it is not something that 'comes upon' you, it is something you do. It is to stop being or doing something, and do the contrary or opposite. Stop sinning, start obeying; stop following man made religion, start following God; stop doubting God, start believing God, etc.

Hope that helps.
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Last edited by Esaias; 06-26-2013 at 08:51 AM.
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  #4  
Old 06-26-2013, 08:31 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Your Definition of "True Repentance" please

Another note: the Lord is the Atonement for our sins. He is the substitute. His death is sufficient to provide God with reason to justify us. One will never be 'good enough to deserve salvation'. One who has sinned is a sinner, a criminal for violating God's commands. The Lord provided a way to forgive or pardon the sinner. Christ's death is sufficient to do that. We must repent from sin and BELIEVE IN GOD THROUGH CHRIST.

Putting our faith in Christ as the atonement for our sins is what God requires of us. you will not 'clean up enough' to DESERVE being 'saved' because you can do nothing to erase the record of your crime - except RECEIVE THE PARDON GOD OFFERS.

Repent, and be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

By turning from sin (and false religion), and identifying publicly with the Lord Jesus Christ in baptism, you receive the forgiveness of sins and are placed into the Atonement. God will impute your faith as righteousness. By God cleansing you of your sins, He declares you holy (separated) unto him so He can dwell in you through the Holy Spirit.

All this is done by faith, not by 'effort'.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:49 AM
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Dichotomy Girl Dichotomy Girl is offline
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Re: Your Definition of "True Repentance" please

This is the verse that popped into my mind when reading your initial post:

Romans 12:1-2

Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

I've always thought of repentance, not as a "feeling" but as more of a response to new information. A realization or an epiphany. Repentance is realizing you've been going the wrong direction, and making a conscious effort to turn around and go another way. Yes, you may be upset or sad when you see that you've not been going the right away, but It's not necessary.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:52 AM
NewbieMisfits NewbieMisfits is offline
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Re: Your Definition of "True Repentance" please

I can't tell you how much that does help.

"People often invent their own forms of religion by which they imagine they will please God and 'discipline' themselves. But such things are attempts by the flesh, and although they appear to be wise, they do not succeed in truly mortifying the flesh. that can only be done through the Holy Ghost:"

So this quote is to say that: After repentance, my flesh will at times still have the desire to sin, but my mind/soul/spirit will automatically fight it, mentally & physically? And that it will not be until the filling of the Holy Ghost that these battles will cease?


You see, my understanding/misunderstanding is that one cannot truly repent until after they have put aside all the sins of the flesh. (Kinda like you can't truly repent if you still smoke, or if you still hold hatred or grudges, and so on)
This, as I've heard testimony (not Apostolic) where one told me about their repentance/salvation, but then continue to knowingly sin (maybe due to lack of power of in fighting it but regardless) and when witnessing both, this testimony and then sin, I try not to judge... but I do.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:03 AM
NewbieMisfits NewbieMisfits is offline
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Re: Your Definition of "True Repentance" please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post

All this is done by faith, not by 'effort'.
I interpit this as; if one has the level of faith required for true repentance, then avoiding sin should not take great effort? I guess I'm lost (a true misfit), how can one truly repent if they continue to sin, or fight sin even?

If it is the case; that after repentance one does not knowingly sin (based on their understanding of what sins are), then I feel a very high percentage of this world will be in for a shocking surprise at the end.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:10 AM
NewbieMisfits NewbieMisfits is offline
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Re: Your Definition of "True Repentance" please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl View Post
This is the verse that popped into my mind when reading your initial post:

Romans 12:1-2

Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

I've always thought of repentance, not as a "feeling" but as more of a response to new information. A realization or an epiphany. Repentance is realizing you've been going the wrong direction, and making a conscious effort to turn around and go another way. Yes, you may be upset or sad when you see that you've not been going the right away, but It's not necessary.
Your view on repentance is what I've been in for 2 months now, (ever since I "felt the presence" of God Himself move on me, or let me know He is indeed there, the first time we visited this Apo church).
I'm sad and highly regretful of my life up until that point, many sins simply vanished that very day, but some I've manually cleansed myself of but I'm still fighting. I've shed a tear, but not fell apart waling in tears...

Last edited by NewbieMisfits; 06-26-2013 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:19 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Your Definition of "True Repentance" please

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieMisfits View Post
I can't tell you how much that does help.

"People often invent their own forms of religion by which they imagine they will please God and 'discipline' themselves. But such things are attempts by the flesh, and although they appear to be wise, they do not succeed in truly mortifying the flesh. that can only be done through the Holy Ghost:"

So this quote is to say that: After repentance, my flesh will at times still have the desire to sin, but my mind/soul/spirit will automatically fight it, mentally & physically? And that it will not be until the filling of the Holy Ghost that these battles will cease?


You see, my understanding/misunderstanding is that one cannot truly repent until after they have put aside all the sins of the flesh. (Kinda like you can't truly repent if you still smoke, or if you still hold hatred or grudges, and so on)
This, as I've heard testimony (not Apostolic) where one told me about their repentance/salvation, but then continue to knowingly sin (maybe due to lack of power of in fighting it but regardless) and when witnessing both, this testimony and then sin, I try not to judge... but I do.
One cannot 'repent' without actually repenting. Continuing to sin means one has not repented of whatever it is one is continung to do.

The flesh will always be adverse to the Spirit. Every man when he is tempted is drawn away by his own lusts, etc. If your CHOICE (your heart) is right with God, then you will choose not to surrender to the desires of the flesh but instead you will choose to surrender to the desires of the Spirit.

When one is filled with the spirit, it does not mean 'the battle is over'. Rather, the battle has just truly begun. Being filled with the spirit does not mean one is not tempted, or is beyond temptation. It means one is filled with God's spirit as opposed to the spirit of disobedience. Sometimes it will be a sore trial. Sometimes you may fall (though you do not HAVE to fall...), but you repent (ie stop sinning, confess to God, get back on track with following the Lord).

By staying in the Spirit the temptations of the flesh lose their power to DEMAND you obey them, one is able to put to death ('mortify') the deeds of the body, ie one is able to NOT SIN.

Do not confuse temptation to sin, with sin itself. Temptation becomes sin when you yield to it. It begins in the heart, the heart yields to a desire for something unlawful, and thus the will submits itself to the law of sin rather than the law of righteousness.

You will not 'automatically' fight anything, you must choose whose side you are on - God's, or sin's. If you choose God, then when sin tempts you the choice has already been made and you need only stand on your choice - you submit to righteousness.

You really need to read Romans chapter 6, your answers are found there.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:26 AM
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Re: Your Definition of "True Repentance" please

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieMisfits View Post
I interpit this as; if one has the level of faith required for true repentance, then avoiding sin should not take great effort? I guess I'm lost (a true misfit), how can one truly repent if they continue to sin, or fight sin even?

If it is the case; that after repentance one does not knowingly sin (based on their understanding of what sins are), then I feel a very high percentage of this world will be in for a shocking surprise at the end.
Yes, a very high percentage of this world will be in for a shocking surprise, indeed.

As for avoiding sin not taking great effort, sometimes it does take great effort. The key is the CHOICE OF THE HEART - is the heart striving against sin? Or is the heart conniving with the flesh to find a way to yield to sin?

If your will has chosen God and his ways, then the heart is right with God. If your will is still set on pleasing itself, then the heart is not right with God.

If you find temptation is too strong, then fix your faith on Jesus - He is our righteousness, our sanctification, He empowers us, He has proven that sin can be defeated, He came to save us from our sins, He cannot fail if we will but trust Him!

He is greater than all our sins. More powerful. It is HIS WORK, we just submit to Him.

Sometimes it takes quite a bit of time to finally come to a place where faith opens our eyes to understand these things clearly. I struggle at times with understanding just how real our Lord's provision for deliverance is.

Obey the gospel - come to Jesus, renounce sin, be baptized in his name, seek all his blessings by faith, come to HIM as your TEACHER, he will show you the way.

HE is the sanctuary, HE is the hiding place, the refuge when storms assail us. Flee to HIM, not your own efforts, REST in Him, trust in Him.

The biggest battle we often have is wrestling with our own lack of faith, we get in our own way too often.

Everything you need from God you will find in the Holy Ghost. Who is the Holy Ghost? JESUS CHRIST.
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