Praxeas

[Dedicated Mind]

reading "the story of christian theology". praxeas was the first modalist, later taken up by sabellius. do any of praxeas writings survive or is he just known from tertullians "against praxeas". will do a wiki search now but thought some might like to comment on the history of modalism.

were the montanists historical pentecostals? any one know more about them?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

reading "the story of christian theology". praxeas was the first modalist, later taken up by sabellius. do any of praxeas writings survive or is he just known from tertullians "against praxeas". will do a wiki search now but thought some might like to comment on the history of modalism.

were the montanists historical pentecostals? any one know more about them?

I don't know that Praxeas was really the first modalist but none of his writings exist as far as we know

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I don't know that Praxeas was really the first modalist but none of his writings exist as far as we know

according to the book i'm reading, praxeas was the first to write a systemized theology of god, even though "the apologists" wrote concerning logos and the diety of christ.

interesting quote from wiki article on sabellius:

Sabellianism was doctrine adhered to by a sect of the Montanists. The Montanists are the same sect that Tertullian himself later converted. Cyprian wrote of them "How, when God the Father is not known-nay, is even blasphemed-can they who among the heretics are said to be baptized in the name of Christ only, be judged to have obtained the remission of sins?"[13] In 225AD Hippolytus spoke of them saying "Some of them assent to the heresy of the Noetians, affirming the Father Himself is the Son." Victorinus had this to say of them "Some had doubts about the baptism of those who appeared to recognize the same Father with the Son with us, yet who received the new prophets."
It is reported that Sabellians experienced glossolalia (speaking in tongues) and baptized in the "shorter formula" because of their denial of the Trinity.

op's in history

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

according to the book i'm reading, praxeas was the first to write a systemized theology of god, even though "the apologists" wrote concerning logos and the diety of christ.

interesting quote from wiki article on sabellius:

Sabellianism was doctrine adhered to by a sect of the Montanists. The Montanists are the same sect that Tertullian himself later converted. Cyprian wrote of them "How, when God the Father is not known-nay, is even blasphemed-can they who among the heretics are said to be baptized in the name of Christ only, be judged to have obtained the remission of sins?"[13] In 225AD Hippolytus spoke of them saying "Some of them assent to the heresy of the Noetians, affirming the Father Himself is the Son." Victorinus had this to say of them "Some had doubts about the baptism of those who appeared to recognize the same Father with the Son with us, yet who received the new prophets."
It is reported that Sabellians experienced glossolalia (speaking in tongues) and baptized in the "shorter formula" because of their denial of the Trinity.

op's in history

Whether or not he was the first to write a systemized theology does not make him the first modalist

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Whether or not he was the first to write a systemized theology does not make him the first modalist

why are you always so contrary? love!!!!! he is the first in recorded history to express a complete modalist view. others made modalist references to god.

In the Post-apostolic Age, he claims that Hermas, Clement of Rome, Polycarp, Polycrates and Ignatius, who lived between 90 and 140 A.D., and Irenaeus, who died about 200 A.D, were either Oneness, modalist, or at most a follower of an "economic Trinity", that is, a temporary Trinity and not an eternal one.[56] Bernard theorizes that the majority of all believers were Oneness adherents until the time of Tertullian, who died circa 225, and was the first notable Church figure to use the term Trinity to describe God. In support of his allegation, Bernard quotes Tertullian as writing against Praxeas: "The simple, indeed (I will not call them unwise or unlearned), who always constitute the majority of believers, are startled at the dispensation (of the Three in One), on the very ground that their very Rule of Faith withdraws them from the world's plurality of gods to the one only true God; not understanding that, although He is the one only God, He must yet be believed in with His own economy. The numerical order and distribution of the Trinity, they assume to be a division of the Unity."

[Michael The Disciple]

If Prax was the FIRST MODALIST who was YHWH!

If the people of his day considered him a heretic why was he famous for having the confidence of the bishop of Rome? He went to Pope Victor and persuaded him to stand up against the heretical Montanists.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

why are you always so contrary?

Why do you insist everyone has to agree with everything you say and not have an opinion contrary to yours?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

reading "the story of christian theology". praxeas was the first modalist, later taken up by sabellius. do any of praxeas writings survive or is he just known from tertullians "against praxeas". will do a wiki search now but thought some might like to comment on the history of modalism.

were the montanists historical pentecostals? any one know more about them?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Whether or not he was the first to write a systemized theology does not make him the first modalist

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

why are you always so contrary? love!!!!! he is the first in recorded history to express a complete modalist view. others made modalist references to god.

Maybe you should get your story straight? Your first post said Praxeas was the FIRST MODALIST, then when I pointed out I was not sure that is true, you changed the issue to the first one to write something, then you made a pejorative comment about me because you aren't sure what your own topic was...

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

If Prax was the FIRST MODALIST who was YHWH!

If the people of his day considered him a heretic why was he famous for having the confidence of the bishop of Rome? He went to Pope Victor and persuaded him to stand up against the heretical Montanists.

correction he was the first to write about modalism. mtd have you researched the montanists? they were pentecostals. where did you get your info on praxeas?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

correction he was the first to write about modalism. mtd have you researched the montanists? they were pentecostals. where did you get your info on praxeas?

I researched these things back in 1980 when I was transitioning from Trinitarianism to Oneness. Any article about Prax should show he was accepted by Pope Victor who heeded his advice.

The point is if Victor was a Trinitarian why did he value Prax's advice? He would never have even received him.

And BTW just because one is Pentecostal does not mean they are going in the right direction.