We are not baptized with the holy ghost and fire

[kingdomapostle]

I WAS BRUSHING UP ON MY APOSTOLIC TEACHINGS...ETC AND RAN ACROSS THIS SHOCKER. I JUST DONT KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF THIS. I DECIDED TO POST IT HERE TO SEE WHAT YOU ALL HAD TO SAY. HERE IT IS...WOW.

We Are Not Baptized in Holy Ghost AND with Fire!
Posted on June 4, 2011 by admin
I have heard many preachers over the years talk about how we are baptized with the Holy Ghost and with Fire. It was just ingrained in me over the years and never really questioned it.

I was getting ready to preach an evangelistic message and was testing the look of a Powerpoint presentation on the the platform screen. My title had something to do with the Holy Ghost. The background for the title page was fire. A pastor friend who saw it said. “What’s with the fire?” Then he gave me a quick little Bible study. It took about sixty seconds for me to see it.

If you read the verse before and after Matthew 3:11, I think you will see that the Church is baptized the the Holy Ghost, but never with fire. Please do a word study of the word fire in the New Testament. Fire always refers to the punishment and not to the church.

John the Baptist said that “He will baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire” because he was talking to those that would be saved, as well as those that would not be saved. Those that are lost will be baptized (submersed) in the lake of fire. Fire has nothing to do with the church.

Matthew 3:10-12
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

[pelathais]

I have heard that angle before, from a Church of Christ minister. He said that the believers were to be baptized (immersed) in the Holy Ghost while the unbelievers would later be immersed in the Lake of Fire. I don't think this is particular to the Church of Christ, that's just where I first came across the idea.

It is hard to be too dogmatic here, imho.

The believer is described as "passing through fire" (Isaiah 43:2, Daniel 3:25-27). Zechariah 13:9, states specifically that God would bring His people through the fire to "refine" them as silver is refined. Malachi 3:2-3, uses this same image to describe the purifying of the priests in the Second Temple era. Though these are Old Testament passages, it's not too hard to see the New Testament applications as well.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15, describes how every man's work shall be tried by fire. Not the same as the man himself being "baptized in fire," but if you've ever really poured yourself into something I think it's pretty easy to see this as being close to the same thing.

1 Peter 4:12-13, speaks of the "fiery trials" that the believer will inevitably go through... "think it not strange concerning the fiery trial..."

The early Pentecostal movement was predicated upon a very strong desire among its adherents to be able to "do more" and to "experience more" of the presence of God. Since God's presence is sometimes compared to a "consuming fire" (Deuteronomy 4:24, Deuteronomy 9:3 and Hebrews 12:29) being close to or even being "immersed" in the presence of God might be considered a "baptism of fire" by many.

[pelathais]

In Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist says that the one Who would come after him (Jesus Christ) would "baptize with the Holy Ghost and fire..." Luke also quotes this statement (Luke 3:16). Later, in Acts 1:5, Luke gives us the words of Jesus Christ just before His ascension into heaven. Here, Jesus is clearly interacting with John's earlier words and calls the baptism of the Holy Ghost "the promise of the Father."

Noticeably, Jesus does NOT say, "... and you shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost AND FIRE not many days hence." He just remarks upon the baptism of the Holy Ghost. However, when the Hold Ghost does come to baptize the believers, the Spirit is accompanied with fire.

The whole "issue" seems sort of iffy to me - both sides of it. My impression from the past was that folks like my Church of Christ friend would probably dismiss the "... and with fire..." part from the believer's experience because so many "Pentecostal types" used that saying to "ignite" an uncomfortable level of enthusiasm in their worship and other behaviors. I was probably wrong to associate the idea exclusively with "Church of Christ types" - but that was just my experience as a younger minister.

[kingdomapostle]

STRANGELY, this article was found on a site called "Apostoic Voice."

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by kingdomapostle

STRANGELY, this article was found on a site called "Apostoic Voice."

It's often been said that the Campbellite movement had a great impact upon the the development of many Apostolic and Pentecostal doctrines. There are even folks here who speak of the "Campbellite Captivity of the Church" when discussing baptism "for the remission of sins."

But then again, I admittedly don't really have anything other than my own anecdotal experience to offer to try and tie the "immersion in the Lake of Fire" idea with Luke 3:16 and Matthew 3:11, to the "Church of Christ types." I tried to see it my friend's way and it I could see where he was coming from... I just couldn't accept being dogmatic about it - any more than I could be dogmatic about the other side either.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The believer is described as "passing through fire" (Isaiah 43:2, Daniel 3:25-27). Zechariah 13:9, states specifically that God would bring His people through the fire to "refine" them as silver is refined. Malachi 3:2-3, uses this same image to describe the purifying of the priests in the Second Temple era. Though these are Old Testament passages, it's not too hard to see the New Testament applications as well.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15, describes how every man's work shall be tried by fire. Not the same as the man himself being "baptized in fire," but if you've ever really poured yourself into something I think it's pretty easy to see this as being close to the same thing.

1 Peter 4:12-13, speaks of the "fiery trials" that the believer will inevitably go through... "think it not strange concerning the fiery trial..."

This is the way I have always understood it.

[kingdomapostle]

We are to study line upon line..and there are many references to the Holy Spirit being FIRE so I don't buy the article.

So yup, I'm still saved, sanctified, and filled with the Holy Ghost, and that with a mighty burning FIRE!

[NorCal]

How can you not see that Acts Chapter 2 is a fulfillment Matthew 3:11?

Acts 2
1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

So when the Holy Ghost was given, so was the Fire.

[kingdomapostle]

I can see it lol. That's why... oh maybe you were talking about the writer of the article.

[Sam]

There are different opinions among Christians on this.

1. Some believe a baptism of fire is a second work of the Holy Spirit after regeneration in which the "old nature" is burned out. This is called sanctification. Then, the HGB or Holy Ghost Baptism is a third work following sanctification. You will hear someone testify that they are saved, sanctified and filled with the Holy Ghost.

2. Some believe John was preaching and offering two alternatives to the people. Either submit to the Lord and let Him baptize you in/with the Holy Spirit or later He will baptize you in/with fire He will plunge you into the lake of fire).

3. Some believe a baptism in fire is a baptism/soaking/overwhelming with trials --fiery trials-- to purge and purify.

4. Some believe fire is just symbolic of how the Holy Spirit works i.e. fire can purify, heat, give light, protect, etc.