Revelation 7:4-8

Monarchianism · #1 04-09-2011, 12:21 AM

Is this the number of Jews that'll be in Heaven? 144,000? Will there not be more than this?

Sam · #2 04-09-2011, 12:24 AM

No, that is the number of Jehovah's Witnesses that will make it.

just kidding.

Praxeas · #3 04-09-2011, 12:25 AM

It seems to be a number of Hebrews separated for a particular purpose

Monarchianism · #4 04-09-2011, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

It seems to be a number of Hebrews separated for a particular purpose

I Hope you are right. It would more than likely have to be. On http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/romans14.htm
Jason Dulle says "The Gentiles are presently enjoying the benefits of the New Covenant because of Israel's unbelief, but there will come a day when the blindness of Israel will be taken away and they will be the head of the nations." <-- Which Is why I think that to be the correct interpretation.

Sister Alvear · #5 04-09-2011, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

No, that is the number of Jehovah's Witnesses that will make it.

just kidding.

got that right Sam...that is what they told me too!

mfblume · #6 04-09-2011, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monarchianism

I Hope you are right. It would more than likely have to be. On http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/romans14.htm
Jason Dulle says "The Gentiles are presently enjoying the benefits of the New Covenant because of Israel's unbelief, but there will come a day when the blindness of Israel will be taken away and they will be the head of the nations." <-- Which Is why I think that to be the correct interpretation.

I personally disagree that Israel will be head of the nations. God is done with national distinction as far as HEAD, etc. The church is Jew and Gentile in one body.

I believe we see a pattern in Rev 5 that is repeated in Rev 7 and gives the key to who the 144,000 are. In Rev 5, John HEARS and then SEES. Same thing in Rev 7. He HEARS about 144,000 of Israel and then SEES a multitude no man could number from all nations. In Rev 5 what John HEARD was apparently opposite to what he SAW. He HEARD the LION OF JUDAH was there, but HE SAW a lamb standing who had been slain . Consider the same pattern in Rev 7. HE HEARS apparently the opposite in a specific number from a specific nation, and SEES an innumerable multitude from all nations.

Hmmmm....

I believe what JOHN HEARD was symbolic of WHAT HE SAW in Rev 5. And if that is the same situation in Rev 7, then THE 144,000 ISRAELITES REPRESENTS spiritually the church from all nations.. the true Israel of God!

Notice JUDAH is listed FIRST (Jesus' tribe) in the list of tribes in Rev 7. DAN is missing and JOSEPH is listed as a tribe. THESE DETAILS WERE NEVER SHOWN BEFORE IN ALL THE OLD TESTAMENT WHEN SPEAKING OF NATURAL ISRAEL. Something spiritual is afoot! And I am convicted that it speaks of THE CHURCH!

I know it goes against popular opinion, but it's what I personally believe.

Monarchianism · #7 04-09-2011, 12:12 PM

Mfblume, He may have meant that that was the time that all of Israel would be saved?
The New Testament declares this. After the last Gentile is saved, God will turn back to Israel and deal with them again.

berkeley · #8 04-09-2011, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monarchianism

Mfblume, He may have meant that that was the time that all of Israel would be saved?
The New Testament declares this. After the last Gentile is saved, God will turn back to Israel and deal with them again.

What are you reading? The Onion?

mfblume · #9 04-09-2011, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monarchianism

Mfblume, He may have meant that that was the time that all of Israel would be saved?
The New Testament declares this. After the last Gentile is saved, God will turn back to Israel and deal with them again.

I can accept all Israel being saved, but to say they will head the nations is offkey, I think. The church has been gentile plus jew since the start. I believe that the Bible teaches that Israel will only be dealt with by way of the church, as well.

TGBTG · #10 04-09-2011, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berkeley

What are you reading? The Onion?

This is what he is reading:-

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Rom 11:29 (NASB)for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.