Baptism from God's Perspective

gloryseeker · #1 06-10-2009, 09:54 AM

I was thinking about all the posts about baptism...you know whether it is important what the preacher says prior to baptism.

Let me challenge you to back away from your theology for a moment and think about a couple of points about the Body of Christ in general.

Two men - one is "trinity" and one is "oneness" both tell stories of how they had visitation from Jesus and that He spoke with them about their ministries about the times they lived in and so forth.

The men: Kenneth Hagin (the Senior one) and Chester Hensley

I have heard accounts of both men (Hensley in person and Hagin through books). Both claiming to have had several encounters with Jesus, yet neither of these men stated that Jesus Himself told them, "Make sure and get 'the others' rebaptized the way you understand it."

As the one guy posted on this forum (don't remember who it was) proclaimed in bold, colored, all cap letters "if you are not baptized in the Name of Jesus you are going to hell." Well, if this is true there are a lot of trinitarian people out there who truly love the Lord. I would think that if "the way" of baptism was so important that Jesus would have mentioned it to one of these guys.

Then we could look at a multitude of people who are considered to be "God's Generals." These would be people like Alexander Dowie, Maria Woodworth Etter, Seymour, Kuhlman, Wigglesworth, Branum, Sumrall, and others. Of those who operated in an absolute power and demonstration of God they were split with about 30% being oneness and about 70% being trinity.

People have die hard opinions of baptism, but my question is....."does God?"

OnTheFritz · #2 06-10-2009, 09:57 AM

Jermyn Davidson · #3 06-10-2009, 10:33 AM

I hope not.

There are just so many sincere Trinitarians baptized the way they know.

ManOfWord · #4 06-10-2009, 10:44 AM

You know, that has been the major point of contention (in oneness circles) for decades! We, I believe, can't see the forrest for the trees. God, could easily, if He wanted to, give the oneness revelation including baptism in Jesus' name on a wide scale. He hasn't. He has had plenty of opportunities to do so and still does.

So, is God playing a game? Does He not relent in sending HG filled "trinnies" to hell?

Has he blinded the eyes of the vast majority of ALL sincere believers/christians throughout the ages only to consign them to a devil's hell for their omission which HE was in control of?

My thoughts: What kind of a sick "moral" creature would actually behave that way? I'm sorry, but is NOT the God whom I serve. The God whom I serve and whom the bible speaks of hears the sinner's cry for salvation and receives those who genuinely put their lives into His hands! If He desires to lead them further into "truth" then that really is not difficult for Him to do.

Why doesn't He? That's the question! IMO, it is because He is far MORE concerned about them coming to Him than he is about the doctrinal minutiae that we fuss and fight about down here. I think "we'll" be sorely surprised when we get to the other side and find out who made it.

Jermyn Davidson · #5 06-10-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

You know, that has been the major point of contention (in oneness circles) for decades! We, I believe, can't see the forrest for the trees. God, could easily, if He wanted to, give the oneness revelation including baptism in Jesus' name on a wide scale. He hasn't. He has had plenty of opportunities to do so and still does.

So, is God playing a game? Does He not relent in sending HG filled "trinnies" to hell?

Has he blinded the eyes of the vast majority of ALL sincere believers/christians throughout the ages only to consign them to a devil's hell for their omission which HE was in control of?

My thoughts: What kind of a sick "moral" creature would actually behave that way? I'm sorry, but is NOT the God whom I serve. The God whom I serve and whom the bible speaks of hears the sinner's cry for salvation and receives those who genuinely put their lives into His hands! If He desires to lead them further into "truth" then that really is not difficult for Him to do.

Why doesn't He? That's the question! IMO, it is because He is far MORE concerned about them coming to Him than he is about the doctrinal minutiae that we fuss and fight about down here. I think "we'll" be sorely surprised when we get to the other side and find out who made it.

Sir,

God does not blind anyone-- people blind themselves in error.

The Bible speaks of the blind being led by the blind and the both falling into the ditch.

The Bible speaks of folks who do great exploits in the Name of Jesus, and those folks are told, "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity. I never knew you."

So there is some danger in deception, some danger in not doing things and not believing the way the Bible prescribes, teaches, and commands.

It was a man that changed Matthew 28:19 (so I beleive).
It was a sin commited by a sinful man.

Who's to say that this good-willed but blind man did not do the unthinkable-- leading millions of souls away from GOD, His Will, and His Identity through His Son?

If that man was wrong? Was it sin?
If it was sin, the people who follow him are in sin too, right?

*AQuietPlace* · #6 06-10-2009, 11:03 AM

We believe that God has preserved his word for us, and that it is true. So why did he allow Matt. 28:19 to be changed, and to stand all of these years? When it will cause so many sincere, honest, God-fearing and loving people to burn in hell?

KWSS1976 · #7 06-10-2009, 11:10 AM

For all you greek,hebrew,noun,pronoun proper grammer folks on here...lol

http://www.velocity.net/~edju/web/Trinity7.htm

Jermyn Davidson · #8 06-10-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

For all you greek,hebrew,noun,pronoun proper grammer folks on here...lol

http://www.velocity.net/~edju/web/Trinity7.htm

But Matthew 28:19 in the original Greek does not mention the F, S or Hg in the first place!

So the whole premise in the link provided is based on a fallacy in the first place!

Steve Epley · #9 06-10-2009, 11:24 AM

Everyone from Pentecost until the rapture is lost without being immersed in Jesus Name. ONLY through immersion in Jesus Name are sins remitted in the NT church age. I hope this helps.

KWSS1976 · #10 06-10-2009, 11:27 AM

But Steve you said that the water does not save you so how can you be lost If I am correct here you said the blood on calvery is what saved us not immersion....