Free will versus reality!

clgustaveson · #1 10-13-2008, 02:53 PM

Just kidding, I just wanted to get everyone's attention.

I want to read everyone's comments on the topic... Do you believe in free will? Do you believe in a limited free will? Do you Believe in something besides free will and Predestination? Do you believe in predestination?

All4one · #2 10-13-2008, 02:58 PM

We have been predestined to have a free will! God will bless our efforts but not force them!

clgustaveson · #3 10-13-2008, 03:14 PM

Can you expound?

All4one · #4 10-13-2008, 03:18 PM

We have no choice but to have a free will! God has forced us to have a choice!

clgustaveson · #5 10-13-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All4one

We have no choice but to have a free will! God has forced us to have a choice!

Is this the only opinion out there?

Michael The Disciple · #6 10-13-2008, 03:49 PM

No one has a totally free will. The Devils will is stronger than mens. Gods will is greater than the devils. Mans is weakest of all. I think we have a limited amount of free will.

The elect were chosen for salvation before the world was. They will come to Christ and be saved. Yet I believe they have enough free will they could possibly despise the grace of God and still be lost.

All told mans free will is overated. Think about Paul. Did he have a free will ? Or did Yeshua knock him off his horse and blind him to force him to believe?

StMark · #7 10-13-2008, 04:54 PM

clgust.,

I've been curious and meaning to ask you, what faith are you?
what type of church do you attend ( if any) ?

nahkoe · #8 10-13-2008, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

All told mans free will is overated. Think about Paul. Did he have a free will ? Or did Yeshua knock him off his horse and blind him to force him to believe?

Ok, so I'm laughing. This is hard to say without looking really funny. Let's try again.

Paul=passionately pursuing a relationship with Yahveh.

Paul=therefore opposed to anything that he felt was against the law of Yahveh.

Yeshua=Yahveh.

Yahveh made sure Paul got this....in quite proper, spectacular, and uncertain terms.

Paul still had free will. But why would he turn away from Yahveh, his God, whom he passionately loved and served? He could have still turned away from Yeshua, but it would have meant turning away from Yahveh.

That's better.

There were too many Yahveh's and Yeshua's the other way...it was a tongue twister.

Michael The Disciple · #9 10-13-2008, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Ok, so I'm laughing. This is hard to say without looking really funny. Let's try again.

Paul=passionately pursuing a relationship with Yahveh.

Paul=therefore opposed to anything that he felt was against the law of Yahveh.

Yeshua=Yahveh.

Yahveh made sure Paul got this....in quite proper, spectacular, and uncertain terms.

Paul still had free will. But why would he turn away from Yahveh, his God, whom he passionately loved and served? He could have still turned away from Yeshua, but it would have meant turning away from Yahveh.

That's better.

There were too many Yahveh's and Yeshua's the other way...it was a tongue twister.

The point would be Yeshua appeared to Paul so he might believe. He called him to believe. No one can be saved unless they are drawn by the Father. If its true our will is free how is it they cannot come to Yeshua unless he draws them? Why couldnt one simply WILL to be saved?

Because salvation is NOT by the will of man but of the will of God.

12: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:12-13

No one can will to be saved. It must be given to them.

16: So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Romans 9:16

nahkoe · #10 10-13-2008, 05:26 PM

But using Paul's experience as evidence doesn't work. His choice had already been made to follow God. A misunderstanding corrected is not the same thing as a person thrown off their horse who has had no previous relationship with God.

As for the actual topic at hand... I think I know where I stand on that, but I don't have specific scriptures to provide. I've never really thought about it before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The point would be Yeshua appeared to Paul so he might believe. He called him to believe. No one can be saved unless they are drawn by the Father. If its true our will is free how is it they cannot come to Yeshua unless he draws them? Why couldnt one simply WILL to be saved?

Because salvation is NOT by the will of man but of the will of God.

12: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:12-13

No one can will to be saved. It must be given to them.

16: So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Romans 9:16