The Difference Between the PCI of the Merger and the Current Counterfeits

[SDG]

...that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death... I want to know you more Jesus.

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

In the OT sins were forgiven yes or no??????????????????

Were they taken away???????????? Paul says no in Heb. 10.

The was NOT remission of sins available in the OT!!!!!!!!!

Only Calvary made remission of sins available. Heb. 9:22, Rom 3:24-25

The Incarnation and Death-Burial-Resurrection made remission of sins available. Jn. 1:29, Rom. 4:25

Remission of sins in the NT was preached in Jesus Name beginning at Jerusalem the command Luke 24:47 the fulfillment Acts 2:38!

Remission clears the record of the sins forgiven.

You place such emphasis upon the difference between "forgiveness" and "remisssion" and how there was no remission in the OT. Mark 1:4 says, "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."

Was John not ministering under the OT Covenant? How could their sins be remitted since the blood of Jesus had not yet been shed?

[Felicity]

In the Old Testament there is a scripture that says that as far as the east is from the west that's how far our sins are from Him.


Psa 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.


Sounds a bit like remittance to me.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

You place such emphasis upon the difference between "forgiveness" and "remisssion" and how there was no remission in the OT. Mark 1:4 says, "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."

Was John not ministering under the OT Covenant? How could their sins be remitted since the blood of Jesus had not yet been shed?

I am Truly Blessed by your sound doctrine.

[rgcraig]

Great stuff here!

[mizpeh]

You can state it however you want to fit your theology, but I came to Jesus Christ one day and placed my faith in what Jesus did FOR me in offering Himself as my substitute on the cross. When I placed my faith in Him as Savior and Lord, I felt conviction, repented of my sins, and rose from the altar with a clean conscience. I didn't have to wait until I was baptized or received the baptism of the Holy Ghost to feel cleansed from my sins. Immediately upon entering into a faith relationship with Jesus Christ I had a strong desire to serve the living God!

Hello TB,

I never went to a church altar to repent. Reading the gospels brought me to repentance in my home. I knew I wanted to live my life for Him and walk according to His ways. I became engrossed in reading the Bible and telling others about Jesus. I was in love! A month or so later, when I was baptized (I had not found a church to go to) by a Baptist minister in the titles with the name of Jesus added on, I had a spiritual experience. I felt a calm peace of mind come over me in the water. I didn't want to come out of the water. Afterwards I felt clean on the inside. That is the only way I could describe it at the time. Not long after I received the Holy Spirit with the evidence of tongues praying with my friend in my flat. I wasn't even praying to receive His Spirit at the time. I asked God to use my hands as His own. When I laid hands on what I was praying over, I spoke in tongues! It was very unexpected, but on retrospect the only way God could use my members as His own was to fill me with His Spirit.

I'm sharing this with you because my experiences with God agree with the Acts 2:38 message of the new birth. I was saved in another country and it took me 1 year to find an apostolic church to attend. The American girl who witnessed to me was very new to the faith and fell away. I attended Trinitarian Pentecostal churches until I found an Apostolic fellowship. God has been very kind and generous to me because 6 months prior to becoming a child of God, I was an atheist. We all have different experiences with God.

Despite all the above, the word of God is the final word on truth. I have yet to see in the scripture two different types of Spirit indwellings, one upon faith and one upon baptism with the evidence of tongues. I haven't found a verse that is definitive for remission/forgiveness of sins happening when we believe and repent. I don't have all the truth and I don't understand it all. I'd like to think I have the basics. What scriptures do you use to prove the we are indwelled with the Spirit prior to Spirit baptism and that our sins are forgiven prior to water baptism? Do you believe the new birth is the washing of water by the word and the indwelling of the Spirit?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

You place such emphasis upon the difference between "forgiveness" and "remisssion" and how there was no remission in the OT. Mark 1:4 says, "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."

Was John not ministering under the OT Covenant? How could their sins be remitted since the blood of Jesus had not yet been shed?

Elder Epley your "remission and forgiveness are different" theory .... looks likes this ....

Is the WORD ENOUGH???

[Barb]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Great stuff here!

Renda, I agree with you that this is great stuff. I have learned much and it is causing me to dig and know more...to God be the glory!!

[Truly Blessed]

Reading a thread like this where there are folks who place the emphasis on what we do instead of what Jesus did for us reminds me of the following story;

Duct Tape or Nails

A man dies and goes to heaven. Of course, St. Peter meets him at the Pearly Gates. St. Peter says, "Here's how it works. You need 100 points to make it into heaven. You tell me all the good things you've done, and I give you a certain number of points for each item, depending on how good it was. When you reach 100 points, you get in."

"Okay," the man says, "I was married to the same woman for 50 years and never cheated on her, even in my heart"

"That's wonderful," says St. Peter, "that's worth three points!"

"Three points?" he says.

"Well, I attended church all my life and supported its ministry with my tithe and service."

"Terrific!" says St.Peter. "That's certainly worth a point."

"One point!?" he asks bewilderedly

"I started a soup kitchen in my city and worked in a shelter for homeless veterans."

"Fantastic, that's good for two more points," St. Peter remarks.

"Two points!?? "

Exasperated, the man cries, "At this rate the only way I'll get into heaven is by the grace of God."

"Bingo, 100 points”! St. Peter exclaims, “Come on in!"

[J-Roc]