Whoa! Polygamist solution is frightening...

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Nina

"The Third Court of Appeals in Austin ruled last week that the state failed to show that any more than five of the teenage girls were being sexually abused, and had offered no evidence of sexual or physical abuse against the other children."

Nina-

1. I addressed this so called child abuse in the very next paragraph you did not quote. I wrote

"As hard as CPS has tried to find child abuse in the past 6 weeks, they have come up empty handed but for a couple of pictures that they won't tell the source of (which seems highly suspect to me).

Yes, there were some 16 year old marriages but no protesting brides in a culture where women want to be married and have children as their highest calling. (The real crime to the Feminist Nazis that controlled the fate of these kids).

I may not like what is going on; but it seems better to me than the huge number of unwed teenagers that Texas is known for; and a 25% rate of STD's for teenagers and untold numbers of teenagers having abortions. If Texas wants to clean house; start here."

2. HOWEVER, understand that the appeals court wasn't finding abuse per se, but rather saying that this was the only actual physical abuse the state had put forth at the sham hearing when Ms. Voss testified about this.

3. The Appeals Court rightly said that merely finding young pregnant women wasn't enough without also making findings regarding their maritial status, age and place of conception, etc.

4. Consequently, the Third Court of Appeals did not find that the Trial Court had met their burden of proof regarding the alledged abuse/imminent danger of said mothers.

5. The majority of the Supreme Court agreed with the Third Court of Appeals and did not find enough evidence to make findings that these women were abused/in imminent danger.

6. Also it seems to me although I don't know for sure; that at least three of the alledged five obviously pregnant "minors" have since proven to be adults leaving two out of more than 425 children that one might legally define as abused. Note that they had provided the same legal documents to CPS at the raid as they did at their individul hearings when the court finally acknowledged that they were indeed adults.

[Nina]

Originally Posted by Newman

cneasttx-

As hard as CPS has tried to find child abuse in the past 6 weeks, they have come up empty handed but for a couple of pictures that they won't tell the source of (which seems highly suspect to me).

Yes, there were some 16 year old marriages but no protesting brides in a culture where women want to be married and have children as their highest calling. (The real crime to the Feminist Nazis that controlled the fate of these kids).

Sister

Are You sure they were 16 and not 14 or 15?

Nina

[Nina]

''As to this endangered population, I do not agree with the Court that the trial court abused its discretion in allowing the department to retain temporary conservatorship until such time as a permanency plan designed to ensure each girl's physical health and safety could be approved. On this record, however, I agree that there was no evidence of imminent 'danger to the physical health or safety' of boys and pre-pubescent girls to justify their removal from the YFZ Ranch, and to this extent I join the Court's opinion.''
Texas Supreme Court, concurring in part and dissenting in part by justices Harriet O'Neill; Phil Johnson; Don R. Willett.

[Steve Epley]

I prophecy lawsuits is on the way!

What a fiasco!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Nina

Sister

Are You sure they were 16 and not 14 or 15?

Nina

I do not know of any 14 or 15 year old pregnancies at the ranch. There was one adult there who was under 15 when she was pregnant but that was more than 8 years ago at a different location. While this is obviously wrong; it is not what we were initially led to believe about what was going on at the ranch.

[Newman]

Correction for Nina- I just came across this account in the Dallas News...

Also Thursday, in Kingman, Ariz., police Sgt. Rusty Cooper confirmed that officers there helped Texas authorities serve a search warrant on Mr. Jeffs, who was convicted in Utah for pressing a minor girl into a "spiritual marriage" and is jailed on similar charges in Arizona.

In the warrant, authorities allege the sect's leader, Mr. Jeffs, has sexually assaulted at least one minor girl at the Texas ranch. They say they have the records and photographs to prove Mr. Jeffs married a 14-year-old girl in 2004 and fathered her child the next year.

The DNA samples will help determine "whether Warren Jeffs is the parent of any children born to underage mothers, and thereby establish whether Warren Jeffs sexually assaulted those children by virtue of their age at the time the child was conceived," the warrant states.

The warrant also alleges Mr. Jeffs married a 12-year-old girl at the ranch in 2006, and that photos show them embraced in a kiss. Texas CPS attorneys introduced into evidence those photographs at a sect infant's custody hearing last week.

According to the warrant, other records obtained during Texas' April raid of the compound indicate Mr. Jeffs may have married two others girls at the ranch, both under the age of 15.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

About the Article Above
I was unaware of this allegation about a 14 year old marriage although I believe based on old information known and that she was 16 when she both conceived and gave birth rather than 15 as one might think based on the article.

This info came indirectly through a blogger who knew the young woman's birthdate and did the math.

EDITED after reading warrant/ The 14 year old referred to in the warrant was married in Utah according to their info. I don't know if she was at the ranch or not although the warrant said dates given were based on Bishops records from ranch.

According to FLDS tradition just because one is married, does not mean the marriage is consumated at that time. So all one can know for sure unless the female says different is that sex occurred at conception and not necesarily a day before. The warrant does not say this and suggests otherwise.

Btw- the twelve year old girl listed in the warrant had a medical exam and CPS did not present her as a child who had been molested.

CPS Smoke and Mirrors
CPS has played fast and loose with EVERY allegation made. It is very troubling to me that they used photos in court that they would not say where they came from. (It seems they would have shouted from the hilltops had the pictures been obtained at the ranch).

They also speak of photos in the warrant but once again do not specifically identify where they came from although the Bishops records with dates are specifically said to have been at ranch.

Inflamatory and prejudicial pictures were used in court alledgedly to get reaction from mother who wanted her children back...not for the truth of what they asserted and therefore were not authenticated (based on what I have been able to piece together).

One of the concerns is that the pictures could have been altered and arguably another hoax that the "gullible" CPS will later claim they did not realize when they acted upon them. We have heard that song and dance before...

[Rico]

Well, apparently things have run into a slight snag. The judge who had her decisions overturned has now decided to be as big a roadblock as she possibly can to these children and parents, including restricting their freedom of movement. Some people just can't stand losing in court, including judges.


"Under the deal CPS released, the families won't be able to leave Texas until Aug. 31 but would be allowed to move back to the ranch. It also calls for parenting classes and visits by CPS to interview children and parents in the child abuse investigation.

Walther wanted to remove the August deadline and provide for psychological evaluations of the children. She also wanted it specified that parents can't travel more than 60 miles from their residence without 48 hours' notice. She also wanted CPS to have access to the ranch and the children at all times necessary for any investigation."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080531/...QGXhRnVjJvzwcF

[HeavenlyOne]

Ridiculous.

[Rico]

This judge basically wanted to make the compound a minimum security prison where people had to notify the State when they wanted to leave and go more than 60 miles (which is nothing in Texas). A drive to the grocery store could be that far. She also basically wanted to make them subject to search at the whim of CPS.

[Hoovie]

Reuniting!

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1