Isaiah 3 and jewelry... - Page 90

onefaith2 · #**891** 09-09-2010, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

onefaith do you know what that word "modest" means here?

So if you believe the text is self-defining the word as "decent, appropriate, not drawing attention" -- what does this mean to you? Does a denim skirt in a swimming hole seem appropriate? Does it draw attention? Fancy hairdos? Pioneer/LSD-Fundamentalist styles?

I understand Timothy is speaking to a specific issue here when giving these instruction for how the people show be at worship.

I also want to point this to the greater meaning behind the word "modest." Nowhere do we get a doctrine to wear short sleeve shirts, avoid shorts and not wear tank tops (ahem, rdp).

No where huh? Then tell me brother if you will, why would the HG convict me of such things?
Any saint of such things that NEVER even hear the pastor preach on it?

Jeffrey · #**892** 09-09-2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

No where huh? Then tell me brother if you will, why would the HG convict me of such things?
Any saint of such things that NEVER even hear the pastor preach on it?

What do you mean by "no where huh?"

Are you saying that everything the Spirit "convicts" you of is a Universal law/conviction for the entire Body?

I find most things people were "convicted" of was an imitated conviction of someone else, or a law that they complied with. Either way, the Spirit has "convicted" me many times of sin, and consequently a situation or thing that was causing my sin, that intimately applied to me and not everyone else.

I think of Romans 14: the weaker and stronger brother. If your conscience is not free, then it is sin. Do what is right by you and the Spirit leading you. Don't turn a beautiful thing (sensitivity to God's voice) into a bad thing (self-righteousness that demands everyone do what you do).

onefaith2 · #**893** 09-09-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

What do you mean by "no where huh?"

Are you saying that everything the Spirit "convicts" you of is a Universal law/conviction for the entire Body?

I find most things people were "convicted" of was an imitated conviction of someone else, or a law that they complied with. Either way, the Spirit has "convicted" me many times of sin, and consequently a situation or thing that was causing my sin, that intimately applied to me and not everyone else.

I think of Romans 14: the weaker and stronger brother. If your conscience is not free, then it is sin. Do what is right by you and the Spirit leading you. Don't turn a beautiful thing (sensitivity to God's voice) into a bad thing (self-righteousness that demands everyone do what you do).

Please read my post. These are universal convictions that the entire Holiness movement and often others like Baptist feel. Its the spirit that is attached to the motive in which we do, wear, or act accordingly.

Jeffrey · #**894** 09-09-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Please read my post. These are universal convictions that the entire Holiness movement and often others like Baptist feel. Its the spirit that is attached to the motive in which we do, wear, or act accordingly.

I'm not sure what the Universal definitions of "convictions" are (wouldn't it be called a law or rules if it were universal?) in your opinion, or how and what you base that on. I've read your posts.

onefaith2 · #**895** 09-09-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I'm not sure what the Universal definitions of "convictions" are (wouldn't it be called a law or rules if it were universal?) in your opinion, or how and what you base that on. I've read your posts.

So you don't have some universal convictions that the entire church where you attend share?

There are some basic convictions as things that the HG directs the body to stay away from as a whole and then there are personal ones.

All come from Biblical principles.

Sam · #**896** 09-09-2010, 02:18 PM

rdp,
is that sermon found in the "Abomination" post http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=31472
taken from a message you preached and someone recorded it?

Jeffrey · #**897** 09-09-2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

So you don't have some universal convictions that the entire church where you attend share?

There are some basic convictions as things that the HG directs the body to stay away from as a whole and then there are personal ones.

All come from Biblical principles.

I guess we are hampering over what you distinguish as a "conviction" versus a way of living life together. Please define the word "conviction."

Of course we have some universally shared ideas about life where we assemble. We believe in denying ourselves, and living for Jesus. We believe in not putting any idols in front of Jesus, nor giving anything else greater preeminence. We believe we should abstain from sexual immorality. We believe we shouldn't lie, cheat, steal. We believe we should honor God in the way we live our life, in perfect balance of his character: with overflowing joy and fullness, with restraint and love, with discipline and concern, with authenticity and simplicity....

rdp · #**898** 09-09-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I'm sure I've fallen short at times in this discussion. But I also remind you that you are a believer, a believer putting unnecessary demands on God's people, and even questioning the eternal fate of those you disagree with.

So believing the biblical instructions "not with gold jewelry, pearls, or costly array," is now relegatd to "putting unnecessary demands on God's people"?????? YOU have no problem making allowances that the Bible does NOT make, arguing from assumption/speculation never stated in the text itself....& then wanna' talk to ME about "hermeneutics" ????

My tone certainly may be harsh with you. Like Paul, I screw up and come off harsher than I am sometimes (at least I didn't tell you to go mutilate yourself - ahem Galatians).

My comments were in DIRECT response to the single post I replied to. Go re-read it with that in mind. It certainly wasn't a blanket generalization. But if the shoe fits

What "fits" is the plain language of I Tim. 2:9!

rdp · #**899** 09-09-2010, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Actually, that's not what the verse says -- and I think you know where this brother was going.

In the context of "Not with gold" what does he tell the women to wear instead (since you see this as clothing/fashion advice)? Don't try to squirm out of this one and move on to something else

What is there to "squirm out of" in the text that says "not with gold jewelry, pearls, or costly apparel"???????????????? Guess what Jeffrey, you don't even have to have the gift of interpretation to comprehend this one! Just turn there & read it for yourself...............

Jeffrey · #**900** 09-09-2010, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdp

What is there to "squirm out of" in the text that says "not with gold jewelry, pearls, or costly apparel"???????????????? Guess what Jeffrey, you don't even have to have the gift of interpretation to comprehend this one! Just turn there & read it for yourself...............

When you read, do you just look for keywords and then knee jerk respond? Sure looks that way. The ol' stick your fingers in your ear and he who screams the loudest wins method.