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12-20-2007, 09:53 PM
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His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jekyll
How so? Please don't turn this into a gender issue. She fires off at the grace that God has extended toward a pastor, a man in authority. I had responded, and things have digressed from there. Have I fired off toward her? No, I responded to her. Have I been harsh? Absolutely.
Never once have I proactively sought out her posts to jump on or attack. A post in the VM Leaving thread started this and she revisited her attitude in the AS thread. I felt like I should respond.
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Even if this was about pastoral authority...are you her pastor that she should submit to...
....See, I was absolutely right on when I said this has to do with authority and lording over people. 
The things people do for power and recognition.
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12-20-2007, 09:55 PM
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My Family!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Collierville, TN
Posts: 31,786
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Romans 13
Obey The Leaders Of The Land
1 Every person must obey the leaders of the land. There is no power given but from God, and all leaders are allowed by God. 2 The person who does not obey the leaders of the land is working against what God has done. Anyone who does that will be punished.
3 Those who do right do not have to be afraid of the leaders. Those who do wrong are afraid of them. Do you want to be free from fear of them? Then do what is right. You will be respected instead. 4 Leaders are God's servants to help you. If you do wrong, you should be afraid. They have the power to punish you. They work for God. They do what God wants done to those who do wrong.
5 You must obey the leaders of the land, not only to keep from God's anger, but so your own heart will have peace. 6 It is right for you to pay taxes because the leaders of the land are servants for God who care for these things. 7 Pay taxes to whom taxes are to be paid. Be afraid of those you should fear. Respect those you should respect.
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
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12-20-2007, 10:00 PM
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His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgcraig
Romans 13
Obey The Leaders Of The Land
1 Every person must obey the leaders of the land. There is no power given but from God, and all leaders are allowed by God. 2 The person who does not obey the leaders of the land is working against what God has done. Anyone who does that will be punished.
3 Those who do right do not have to be afraid of the leaders. Those who do wrong are afraid of them. Do you want to be free from fear of them? Then do what is right. You will be respected instead. 4 Leaders are God's servants to help you. If you do wrong, you should be afraid. They have the power to punish you. They work for God. They do what God wants done to those who do wrong.
5 You must obey the leaders of the land, not only to keep from God's anger, but so your own heart will have peace. 6 It is right for you to pay taxes because the leaders of the land are servants for God who care for these things. 7 Pay taxes to whom taxes are to be paid. Be afraid of those you should fear. Respect those you should respect.
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ROFL...they must think they can punish people and have people pay them off with taxes.... good grief.
What a pitiful and prevalent mindset. Now I know where they get their fear tactics....for God's word says we should be afraid of them. 
NO! IT IS THE GOVERNING AUTHORITY THAT CAN PLACE US IN PRISON FOR WRONGDOING, THAT IS THE FEAR WE FACE!!!
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12-20-2007, 10:05 PM
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Psalm 121
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Not of this world
Posts: 836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgcraig
Romans 13
Obey The Leaders Of The Land
1 Every person must obey the leaders of the land. There is no power given but from God, and all leaders are allowed by God. 2 The person who does not obey the leaders of the land is working against what God has done. Anyone who does that will be punished.
3 Those who do right do not have to be afraid of the leaders. Those who do wrong are afraid of them. Do you want to be free from fear of them? Then do what is right. You will be respected instead. 4 Leaders are God's servants to help you. If you do wrong, you should be afraid. They have the power to punish you. They work for God. They do what God wants done to those who do wrong.
5 You must obey the leaders of the land, not only to keep from God's anger, but so your own heart will have peace. 6 It is right for you to pay taxes because the leaders of the land are servants for God who care for these things. 7 Pay taxes to whom taxes are to be paid. Be afraid of those you should fear. Respect those you should respect.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Roc
ROFL...they must think they can punish people and have people pay them off with taxes.... good grief.
What a pitiful and prevalent mindset. Now I know where they get their fear tactics....for God's word says we should be afraid of them. |
Amen! Good preachin'. 
__________________
13 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. 14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. Galatians 5:13-15 (NIV)
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12-20-2007, 10:06 PM
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Communion at AFF
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Roc
You have twisted the meaning of Romans 13:2. The context has to do with governing authority (in our case, The UNITED STATES OF AMERICA). What twisted thinking of those that attribute this chapter to pastoral authority...no wonder this mindset is so prevalent...thanks for making me aware where this distortion comes from. |
Ahhhhhh, THANK YOU for taking this in another direction.
This scripture has to do with authority, plain and simple. David was absolutely crushed and repented for even touching God's anointed by cutting a piece off of his robe.
Sheesh all these bitter folks out there taking pot shots at scritptural authority. No wonder our kids today have no regard or respect for authority.
Tear it down all you want, J dude. You can have your reward also, I want none of that.
__________________
"Some may call me foolish, some may call me odd; but I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man than a fool in the eyes of God..."
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12-20-2007, 10:08 PM
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Go OLLU Armadillos!!!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Boerne, TX
Posts: 899
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Just found this and thought it was good:
"One of the most important factors in interpreting Romans 13 correctly is understanding the language that Paul used in writing it. Repeatedly, Paul uses the phrase “ God’s servant” (“minister” in the King James Version. The definition of a minister is a servant). This indicates that good government is ministerial in nature; it is a ministry built on the servanthood of God’s chosen leader. God is very clear about how we are to govern our families and ourselves. He is also very clear about the characteristics of those who are permitted to serve in church leadership.
An excellent passage for an understanding of the requirements of ministry is 1 Tim. 3:1-13. The parallels this passage has with the requirements for ministry listed in Exodus 18 are striking. Paul gives a more detailed explanation of the characteristics of godly leadership than does Moses, specifying acceptable personal behavior especially taking care to mention that a godly leader is successfully in charge of his own family, first and foremost. The prophet Hosea makes it clear that the wrong people can work their way into positions of leadership against God’s wishes. “[Hos 8:4] They made kings, but not through me. They set up princes, but I knew it not. With their silver and gold they made idols for their own destruction.”
All good government of God is marked by certain very specific characteristics. Each division of government has boundaries and limits of authority. One who fails to govern himself cannot be God’s first choice for His minister in any form of government. He will be a usurper bent on dishonest gain, personal exaltation and violation of the other governments authority, including God’s. God has many inherent characteristics, one of which is justice. The usurper will be unable to act in a just manner because of his denial of God’s sovereign authority. Therefore, while he will be used by God he cannot be a legitimate servant of God."
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12-20-2007, 10:09 PM
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Psalm 121
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Not of this world
Posts: 836
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__________________
13 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. 14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. Galatians 5:13-15 (NIV)
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12-20-2007, 10:10 PM
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Communion at AFF
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Roc
ROFL...they must think they can punish people and have people pay them off with taxes.... good grief.
What a pitiful and prevalent mindset. Now I know where they get their fear tactics....for God's word says we should be afraid of them.
NO! IT IS THE GOVERNING AUTHORITY THAT CAN PLACE US IN PRISON FOR WRONGDOING, THAT IS THE FEAR WE FACE!!! |
Bummer...you fell for that translation that attributes Godly authority to civic authority alone.
And good for you for recognizing the confession pennance that Catholicism uses as taxes.
__________________
"Some may call me foolish, some may call me odd; but I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man than a fool in the eyes of God..."
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12-20-2007, 10:11 PM
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My Family!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Collierville, TN
Posts: 31,786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jekyll
Ahhhhhh, THANK YOU for taking this in another direction.
This scripture has to do with authority, plain and simple. David was absolutely crushed and repented for even touching God's anointed by cutting a piece off of his robe.
Sheesh all these bitter folks out there taking pot shots at scritptural authority. No wonder our kids today have no regard or respect for authority.
Tear it down all you want, J dude. You can have your reward also, I want none of that.
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Do you realize you repeat yourself a lot? I think you are bitter toward those you are accusing of being bitter.
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
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12-20-2007, 10:13 PM
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Communion at AFF
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophil
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MERRY CHRISTMAS, I am off to wrap more presents and finish my on-call duties for the evening!
Have at it!
__________________
"Some may call me foolish, some may call me odd; but I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man than a fool in the eyes of God..."
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