Hello From Tampa!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Oh, I get it...so when it's referred to reaching the lost, the refererence is to other Christians who have put their trust in Jesus Christ and not the ungodly folks that are in need of a savior? Nothing new I guess as to what the main focus is for outreach...the attitude is that there is a "corner on truth and it's our job to set the rest straight"

Oy vey...can't the focus be on unbelievers? Isn't that what "taking it to the world" should imply...evidently, it is not.

A lot of what made up the early Apostolic movement ("early" as in "early 20th Century") was a desire by many people from different denominations and backgrounds to "get back to the roots" of the NT Church. Basically we are the spiritual heirs of those who left their denominations, or were asked to leave. Even after all this time we still feel a connection with them and they are usually unavoidable in the society around us.

So how do we interact? That's one of the biggest questions and is really part of the "When is the Blood Applied?" debate. If the blood is applied at repentance then these people are at least nominally "brethren." If it isn't applied until all 3 steps are completed, then these people are the lost.

In the real world this issue is infinitely nuanced to the point that it is difficult if not impossible to clearly separate the "One Steppers" from the "Three Steppers." But people of both persuasions believe that there as fertile a field of evangelism in the church world as there is among "sinners."

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Just want to add quickly here that the ladies meeting this morning was excellent!! Especially after Vesta Mangun got involved. To me the presence of God blew into the place about the same time and after that it was just wonderful!

The speakers did excellent -- all of them -- and the music was good. Everything was done with excellence imo.

As I thought about this post, the words of this song came to mind...

And when the power of heaven is tapped
Then something good is bound to happen
While the Spirit of Jesus is in this place.

Originally Posted by pelathais

A lot of what made up the early Apostolic movement ("early" as in "early 20th Century") was a desire by many people from different denominations and backgrounds to "get back to the roots" of the NT Church. Basically we are the spiritual heirs of those who left their denominations, or were asked to leave. Even after all this time we still feel a connection with them and they are usually unavoidable in the society around us.

So how do we interact? That's one of the biggest questions and is really part of the "When is the Blood Applied?" debate. If the blood is applied at repentance then these people are at least nominally "brethren." If it isn't applied until all 3 steps are completed, then these people are the lost.

In the real world this issue is infinitely nuanced to the point that it is difficult if not impossible to clearly separate the "One Steppers" from the "Three Steppers." But people of both persuasions believe that there as fertile a field of evangelism in the church world as there is among "sinners."

Thanks, Pel!

You said it much more gently than I would have. I was going to quote Elder Epley... something about them other church folks being lost as two boys.... You know!

[Ron]

I am writing this after being up all night. Part of it is an upset stomach from the meds I am on, part is a concern of what is going to happen.
I personally can see this from both viewpoints, what I struggle with is the "division" it is creating.

I have no claim to this message. I am first generation coming into kingdom at a UPC Church when I was 19. My wife is first generation as well coming to the Lord when she was 24.

I am grateful that there was/is a UPC Church for me.
Is the UPC perfect? Not by any means, but neither is any organization.

The UPC needs our wonderful "Conservative" brethren, we also need those who are a little more "left" in thier thinking.
What is not needed is "attitudes" from any side.

I was thinking that what could tear us apart so violently would be the organization walking away from water baptism in Jesus Name or the infilling of the Holy Ghost, not TV advertising whether we get it or not.

The thing that is going through my mind is this, if the UPC suffers a decisive split tomorrow, who are the ones that God will hold accountable?

I pray that every minister prayerfully considers this before they mark "for" or "against."

My personal opinion is this, there are more important matters to deal with than this issue.

May the Lord have mercy on us all.

From one who still fears God and still wants to please God!

Ron

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Ron

I am writing this after being up all night. Part of it is an upset stomach from the meds I am on, part is a concern of what is going to happen.
I personally can see this from both viewpoints, what I struggle with is the "division" it is creating.

I have no claim to this message. I am first generation coming into kingdom at a UPC Church when I was 19. My wife is first generation as well coming to the Lord when she was 24.

I am grateful that there was/is a UPC Church for me.
Is the UPC perfect? Not by any means, but neither is any organization.

The UPC needs our wonderful "Conservative" brethren, we also need those who are a little more "left" in thier thinking.
What is not needed is "attitudes" from any side.

I was thinking that what could tear us apart so violently would be the organization walking away from water baptism in Jesus Name or the infilling of the Holy Ghost, not TV advertising whether we get it or not.

The thing that is going through my mind is this, if the UPC suffers a decisive split tomorrow, who are the ones that God will hold accountable?

I pray that every minister prayerfully considers this before they mark "for" or "against."

My personal opinion is this, there are more important matters to deal with than this issue.

May the Lord have mercy on us all.

From one who still fears God and still wants to please God!

Ron

Good post my Brother!

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by pelathais

A lot of what made up the early Apostolic movement ("early" as in "early 20th Century") was a desire by many people from different denominations and backgrounds to "get back to the roots" of the NT Church. Basically we are the spiritual heirs of those who left their denominations, or were asked to leave. Even after all this time we still feel a connection with them and they are usually unavoidable in the society around us.

So how do we interact? That's one of the biggest questions and is really part of the "When is the Blood Applied?" debate. If the blood is applied at repentance then these people are at least nominally "brethren." If it isn't applied until all 3 steps are completed, then these people are the lost.

In the real world this issue is infinitely nuanced to the point that it is difficult if not impossible to clearly separate the "One Steppers" from the "Three Steppers." But people of both persuasions believe that there as fertile a field of evangelism in the church world as there is among "sinners."

Whatever the perspective is (i.e. "until all 3 steps are completed...these people are lost")....the fact remains that there are many more unbelievers who are godless and living sinful lives...so from a pure numbers perspective, the focus needs to be where the harvest is plenty and stop putting all energy on saved individuals (that is, saved from the perspective of "One Steppers")....this is futile and waste of valuable resources, namely time.

It's like saying, let's focus on the one tenth of 1 percent (that "may" be saved) rather than the 90% that are lost undoubtedly (I'm obviously using unsubstantiated numbers just to make a point)