Visited a non UPC church

[NorCal]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

No offense to you Norcal, but the idea of Pastoral conviction is hogwash. Where in the NT does the scripture give a precedent for it? Where does scripture teach that a single man has a right to load his own convictions on everyone else?

Paul certainly didn't. He made it clear what was his own opinion and what was not. And when it was just his own opinion, the saints weren't bound to follow it or be considered sinful and rebellious.

Teach people how to love God and follow their own convictions, don't just heap your own issues and problems on all the church.

Acts 20:28; 1 Th. 5:12; Ph. 1:1; 1 Tim. 3:1; Tit. 1:7; Jeremiah 3:15;

If God had not intended for there to be authority in your life, he would have not provided scripture for it.

Heb. 13:17 - Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

We may argue how much authority he should have in your life, but if you do not let him have any, you are biblically wrong.

I agree that a pastor should not "lord" over you (1 Thess. 2:7-8); Should lead by example (1 Pet. 5:3); Care about the welfare of the Saints then their own profit (1 Pet. 5:2); Be humble and not lord over the saints (1 Pet. 5:2); Build people up to free them to God's will (Eph. 4:11-12; 2 Cor. 10:8).

I think I could go on. But it is biblical.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by NorCal

Acts 20:28; 1 Th. 5:12; Ph. 1:1; 1 Tim. 3:1; Tit. 1:7; Jeremiah 3:15;

If God had not intended for there to be authority in your life, he would have not provided scripture for it.

Heb. 13:17 - Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

We may argue how much authority he should have in your life, but if you do not let him have any, you are biblically wrong.

Who are the leaders, scripturally?

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by NorCal

Acts 20:28; 1 Th. 5:12; Ph. 1:1; 1 Tim. 3:1; Tit. 1:7; Jeremiah 3:15;

If God had not intended for there to be authority in your life, he would have not provided scripture for it.

Heb. 13:17 - Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

We may argue how much authority he should have in your life, but if you do not let him have any, you are biblically wrong.

I agree that a pastor should not "lord" over you (1 Thess. 2:7-8); Should lead by example (1 Pet. 5:3); Care about the welfare of the Saints then their own profit (1 Pet. 5:2); Be humble and not lord over the saints (1 Pet. 5:2); Build people up to free them to God's will (Eph. 4:11-12; 2 Cor. 10:8).

I think I could go on. But it is biblical.

Totally agree.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by NorCal

Acts 20:28; 1 Th. 5:12; Ph. 1:1; 1 Tim. 3:1; Tit. 1:7; Jeremiah 3:15;

If God had not intended for there to be authority in your life, he would have not provided scripture for it.

Heb. 13:17 - Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

We may argue how much authority he should have in your life, but if you do not let him have any, you are biblically wrong.

I agree that a pastor should not "lord" over you (1 Thess. 2:7-8); Should lead by example (1 Pet. 5:3); Care about the welfare of the Saints then their own profit (1 Pet. 5:2); Be humble and not lord over the saints (1 Pet. 5:2); Build people up to free them to God's will (Eph. 4:11-12; 2 Cor. 10:8).

I think I could go on. But it is biblical.

Can't argue with it.

And yes, with me the question has always been about "how much authority" not "is there any authority?".

[NorCal]

Most people just don't like to be called out, "YOU ARE IN SIN, CHANGE." Been there, its not very comfortable. But that is why you have a Pastor over you.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by NorCal

Most people just don't like to be called out, "YOU ARE IN SIN, CHANGE." Been there, its not very comfortable. But that is why you have a Pastor over you.

A pastor? Would that be the pastor of First Baptist Church or the pastor at Our Lady of the Lake Catholic church or the pastor of First Pentecostal Church?

[returnman]

Confusion about authority in the pentecostal ranks is brought on by the type of non-biblical church government prevalent. Deacons and elders are just puppets to the "one head man", the pastor.

[AreYouReady?]

What is the pastor's role in the bible?

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

What is the pastor's role in the bible?

I can only tell you what it isn't. It isn't the entirety of the 5-fold ministry.

As far as WHO has authority over you to one degree or another it would be interesting to actually make a list. It may surprise you how long it gets.

A partial list of my own:
My boss
HIS bosses
My wife (and yes guys, without being sarcastic your wife DOES have a measure of authority over you)
Our HOA (Home Owners Association)
The guy who teaches our class to obtain our Concealed Carry Permit.
Our local government
State government
Federal government
God
And yes, the pastor

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by returnman

Confusion about authority in the pentecostal ranks is brought on by the type of non-biblical church government prevalent. Deacons and elders are just puppets to the "one head man", the pastor.

You have deacons? Haven't seen one of those since we left the Baptist church... I thought Pentecostals didn't have them... hummm...