What Does Jesse Jackson Know That We Don't?

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Antipas, you are cherry picking your facts here. The partition didn't run "Palestinians" out of the Israeli side. First of all, the term "Palestinian" is relatively new. At the time in 1948 there was no state in what is now Israel and Gaza and the West Bank. NO STATE. going back to just after WW1 the League of Nations indicated that there should be a move towards the creation of 2 states in the area. the Partition was simply a follow thru of that much older plan.

That wasn't a plan the Palestinians were happy with bro.

It should also be noted that no Arab who lived in the Israeli side of the Partition had their land confiscated. and ALL were offered the right to stay and be part of the state of Israel. Some did stay and their families are still part of Israel to this day.

Wow. You mean to tell me that if the UN partitioned the land you lived on and gave you the right to live under Native American authority you wouldn't feel violated? A number of Americans would.

Some didn't and these joined with the 5 Arab states that attacked Israel in 1948. Israel won that war, and tried to force these Arabs that fought against them back to Jordan. Jordan would not have them back (many had immigrated from Jordan with the promise of land). Jordan wanted them to stay in refugee camps in the West Bank and Gaza because it gave them (Jordan) claim to the land.

True. But this is a result of the initial problem...partitioning land by UN edict.

That is also part of this story that isn't being told here.

Israel was perfectly fine with a two stated solution at the time and many Arabs in the Israel side were fine with it too.

Whoa....that's WAY too simplistic. Please note, in a 15 July 1937 editorial, David Ben Gurion implied that partition could never be an acceptable long-term solution: 'The Jewish people have always regarded, and will continue to regard Palestine as a whole, as a single country which is theirs in a national sense and will become theirs once again. No Jew will accept partition as a just and rightful solution.'

That was in 1937. You are sweeping the entire Zionist movement under the rug and ignoring it. During the Zionist Congress, Ben Gurion supported the proposal to partition Palestine into a Jewish and an Arab state. At the same time, he delivered speeches which made it clear that he did not accept partition as a final solution: 'If I had been faced with the question: a Jewish state in the west of the land of Israel in return for giving up on our historical right to the entire land of Israel I would have postponed the establishment of the state. No Jew is entitled to give up the right of the Jewish nation to the land. It is not in the authority of any Jew or of any Jewish body; it is not even in the authority of the entire nation alive today to give up any part of the land'... ...'this is a standing right under all conditions. Even if, at any point, the Jews choose to decline it, they have no right to deprive future generations of it. Our right to the entire land exists and stands for ever.'

Let's face it...the complete annexation of Palestine was on the Zionist agenda from the start. Only a fool would deny that.

However some were not and the Arab states around them were not. It had very little to do with a store keeper wanting to keep his store and being run off by Jews.

Again an over simplification.

I don't like having to put this one side out by itself. Anyone who knows anything about this history understands that there have been wrongs committed by both sides. Everyone ought to be able to agree that the sources of the violence are many and varied and trying to boil such a complex problem down to one simple thing. "Palestinians" want their land back". Is simply not accurate. Not because that isn't part of the equation but because it is only part of a larger and much more complex picture.

If you don't like only one side of the story being told....tell us about the Zionists and their rejection of the two state solution and their radical agenda to completely annex Palestine.

You've over simplified and completely ignored so many unsavory details it's unreal.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by ILG

Do you have a list for the Palestinians too?

There are none against the Palestinaians.

I don't know if the UN makes Resolutions against non-nations.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

There are none against the Palestinaians.

I don't know if the UN makes Resolutions against non-nations.

Bingo. The Palestinians are a people and Israel is a nation. Therefore Israel is responsible as a nation for it's tactics with the Palestinians.

[Sarah]

Isn't Bro Kershaw, who lives in Texas, a Palestinian?

I heard him preach many years ago. He said his family was awakened in the middle of the night by the Israelis, and sent from their home.

Does anyone know the details of this testimony? Do I have it right?

[Antipas]

Here's one the Nation State of Modern Israel should consider....

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

[Scott Hutchinson]

There have been wrongs of both sides of the fence in The Middle East.
This is for info.http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Digging, that list is impressive I suppose.....


But once again it is only part of a much larger picture. MANY of these sanctions by the UN were started by Arab nations pushing an anit-Israel agenda and if you dig into the action behind the sanction, you will find a perfectly defensable action.

Ferd, would we have this problem if the United Nations didn't try to carve a nation out of the region at the behest of the Zionists?

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Antipas

If you don't like only one side of the story being told....tell us about the Zionists and their rejection of the two state solution and their radical agenda to completely annex Palestine.

You've over simplified and completely ignored so many unsavory details it's unreal.

You did that Antipas. I didnt say you were wrong or lying or off base. Only that you were giving one side of the information.

As Ive said it is a complex mess, but suggesting as you have that Palisinians just wanted their land back is overly simplistic as anything youve accused me of saying.

The jewsih people would have settled for a two state solution then and are trying pretty hard to get there now.

and you have not dealt with the fact that many Arabs did stay in Isreal and are citizens of Isreal. ALL of those who lived there could have been part of the state had they chosen to.



And lets deal with this idea that this problem is akin to Americans being forced to be part of an Indian state.

Bro, there was NO STATE in this area for years. It has been under some other nations control for thousands of years. there was no functioning state for these people to make some claim to be part of.

Many of the Arabs that you call palistinians were Jordainian Arabs that were forced by their governemnt to immigrate in a land grab intended to block the creation of a Jewish state.

And in all the wars between the "Zionist State" as you like to call it, and the Arab states, the Arabs have been the agressors. the "Zionists" didnt attack anybody. They just beat the mess out of all comers...repeatedly.

so the notion that the "Zionists" were out to distroy all of Palistine becomes a bit difficult for me to swallow.

But look we can go rounds about this history till the cows come home. and we wont agree on too many points I presume.

That doesnt really help us. The problem now is what next? What is to be done now?

i think there is clear indication that Barak Obama will work toward a solution that jepordizes Isreal. I believe there has to be a 2 state solution and I believe that Palistine will have to move away from its stated position that Isreal must be distroyed.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Ferd, would we have this problem if the United Nations didn't try to carve a nation out of the region at the behest of the Zionists?

Yes. we would. and maybe it would be worse. Jews had been migrating to Israel for a 700 years. there was a very large population there by the mid 1940's.

AND there was NO STATE in that area at all and had not been for the majority of that 700 years.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Antipas

No. The land was and always has been God's. Frankly, it was God himself who evicted them from the land for rejecting the Gospel....

"20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." - Luke 21:20-24

God brought this judgment upon them in AD 70 and evicted them with the Roman invasion. Then the Jewish people were scattered and led away captive into all nations as Jesus prophesied. This eviction is to continue throughout the entire time of the Gentiles. Biblical Israel will not be restored until the bodily return of the Messiah. Jerusalem will continue to be bombed and trodden under foot by the Gentiles until Messiah returns. It's part of God's judgment against them. The UN isn't God...so it had no right to try to lift that judgment and move into trying to rebuild the nation of Israel at the request of non-Christian Zionists. I predict that if Christ tarries....the Jews in modern Israel are in grave danger because God's judgment will stand firm...there may be another Jewish diaspora.

We've stepped between God and the Jews. He issued a judgment against them 2,000 years ago and we're trying to rebuild them.

When Biblical Israel is restored it will be an act of God at the return of the Messiah...not an act of the United Nations.

You bring up some very excellent points. I have always wondered why people support Israel politically for biblical reasons. I understand praying for Israel, but doing everything politically in the favor of Israel because they are called God's chosen people in the Bible seemed confused to me.