Another reason NOT to vote for Obama

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Chris, that's not what he's doing. Not at all. His actions are making Americans look like they are condoning terrorists by embracing them and putting flowers on Arafat's grave. And he's not on any official business. His actions toward the terrorists won't make any bit of difference to them than if you or I went and did the same thing. It only makes America look foolish.

We have TRIED sitting down and dealing with them, but that's not how they operate. THEY are the ones who don't want to sit down and deal with us, not the other way around. I'm puzzled by your comments suggesting that this hasn't been tried already.

Heavenly, you know I love ya, but I think you’re being a bit irrational. Carter is trying to negotiate the release of an Israeli soldier, Cpl. Gilad Shalit. There has been fierce confrontations since Hamas captured him. Carter didn’t just up and decide to go, he’s been approached by Israelis desiring an end to the current confrontation and several Palestinian groups. Hamas isn’t going away. They are growing in power and influence. Eventually we will have to talk with them and try to find a way to reduce tensions before things go so crazy and tens of thousands, if not MILLIONS, of innocent Israeli and Palestinian civilians are killed in the crossfire. If these soldiers were fighting out in a desert all by themselves bombing and shooting one another…I’d say let them all kill each other and whoever’s left standing wins. But they are bombing in urban areas. Both sides have bombed areas where civilians are being killed and injured. While we have the constituents of both sides screaming for victory over the other…we have kids with their arms blown off, mothers holding the mangled remains of their children, and fathers desperately looking for their families under the rubble of their homes on both sides. Who’s speaking for them? Who’s their advocate? The Israelis and the Palestinian authorities hate each other so much and have so much bad blood between them; I don’t believe it’s possible for them to see straight enough to negotiate any kind of lasting cease fire. A third party who has the political, military, and economy power to strong arm each side has to sit them down and tell them both how they are going to learn to live together and what will be the consequences if they don’t. Yes, we’ve tried to sit down and talk with them and talks failed. But the reality is that one can NEVER give up trying to do the right thing.

You had said that they don’t want to sit down with us? Can you give us an example of what you’re talking about? The Hamas and various Palestinian groups have requested to sit down with the US…but because Hamas is classified as a terrorist organization the United States has a policy of no talks with anyone in Hamas or groups directly associated with them. Like I said…if only soldiers were dying, I’d say sure thing, let them keep fighting. Let the showdown begin. But there are too many innocent lives standing between these warring parties. And Hamas isn’t going away; they’re growing in political clout.

Sis…we’ve engaged the Palestinians in negotiations…but we’ve done very little in the way of talking with Hamas because it’s listed as a terrorist group. What’s interesting is when a deal is cut between Israel and the Palestinians guess who starts shooting? Hamas. The Palestinian Authority doesn’t have the political clout to control Hamas. Think of the Palestinian Authority as the more moderate side (remember they used to be the PLO and listed as a terrorist group, talking with them helped move them to more diplomatic action) and Hamas as their “right wing religious extremists”. The Palestinian authority needs help with getting Hamas on board with their leadership over the Palestinians and then get Hamas support to talks with Israel (who they don’t even acknowledge as a legitimate state since the UN created the modern state of Israel). There needs to be a third party with the guts to keep trying to bring these wackos to the table. Also someone needs to be a voice for those civilians being hurt. If a third party won’t stand up for the civilians guess what will happen…Hamas will stand up for the Palestinian civilians that are hurt and claim they are being victimized by Israeli forces. This will help Hamas to continue becoming more and more popular among the people. It’s a first class royal mess.

So now that I’ve laid the foundation of why I believe talks are necessary, I have to also express that I feel that talking with them at this time may not be wise. We first need to get more people on board with the idea to give any negotiations legitimacy. So in the end Carter will look stupid…unless he can secure the release of this Israeli soldier, the release of Palestinian soldiers and get this squabble behind them.

But I’ve got to hand it to Carter. While I don’t think we’re ready to begin any kind of talks or negotiations, he doesn’t care if he’s popular for doing this or not.

[DividedThigh]

in my humble opinion we never had any business talking to that terrorist arafat, and should not talk to hamas either, jimma is a boob, and should be institutionalized for our own protection, lol,dt

[ChristopherHall]

I still plan on voting. I'll have to hear Obama and McCain side by side. Of course Obama looks worse than McCain right now...McCain's not even really being confronted. Obama's fighting attacks from Hillary and McCain. When he wins the nomination...I predict he'll knock McCain silly when it comes to policy, vision, and sincerety. McCain's only hope is that issues like these mistatements and spin jobs on who Obama knows will gain him the votes of people who think Bush III would be a good idea.

If McCain's policies are solid and sound compared to Obama's, he can win me. But we'll have to see.

[ChristopherHall]

Most don't realize that the soldier's parents, Noam Shalit and his wife, Aviva, have been begging Carter to secure their son's release for some time now. I think it's interesting. We're seeing a man with his hands open, approaching a vicious enemy, trying to be a voice for parents who want their son's release. Meanwhile the world jeers curses at him.

Dude...Carter's either a nutcase or a saint.

If it were my son, I'll be honest, I'd want Carter to secure his release.

[DividedThigh]

yeah carter has done so much for us, like the nuclear weapons deal with north korea yeah that worked out well, the isrealis should tell carter to go home, and he should be banned from traveling abroad without the state depts, permission, he is a disgrace, same as when he was president, and i do remember that, scary, dt

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by DividedThigh

yeah carter has done so much for us, like the nuclear weapons deal with north korea yeah that worked out well, the Isrealis should tell carter to go home, and he should be banned from traveling abroad without the state depts, permission, he is a disgrace, same as when he was president, and i do remember that, scary, dt

What kind of clout do ex-presidents have anyway? Why were they ever allowed to travel and negotiate with anyone? One would think it would take a sitting President.

I have a question about the nuclear deal with North Korea. The deal Carter helped broker with N. Korea, who’s at fault for it failing….Carter…or N. Korea?

[DividedThigh]

well the truth is both, the nk s for never intending to keep it in the first place and carter for trusting them and clinton for letting it happen on his watch, along with madeline halfwit, lol,dt

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by DividedThigh

well the truth is both, the nk s for never intending to keep it in the first place and carter for trusting them and clinton for letting it happen on his watch, along with madeline halfwit, lol,dt

Let assume Carter didn't go to NK to try to negotiate a deal. Would things be significantly better?

Carter's failed attempts at negotiating with the NK does show the world that they are a rogue nation. Any use of force against NK will be more easily justified seeing that they lied and didn't stick to their end of the bargain in relation to nuclear weapons. So the negotiations failed...but politically it isolates them more and demonstrates to the world that they cannot be trusted. So not all was lost.

[DividedThigh]

the mess in korea and the concessions made by the clinton admin are just that a mess, made it worse, you can talk all you want with this liberal jargon, lets understand them, we dont know what there intents are, etc, bottom line we know from there past behavior they are a rogue nation, carter is a nut, my opinion, and i am still not voting for any presidential candidate that wants to raise my taxes and wont protect unborn innocents, bye, dt

[BHILL]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

I see "Free Market Economy" and "Communism" the same way...the both sound good on paper but don't work in practice. Those who are dogmatic purists don't see this, but hey, that's the way it's always been. So I prefer "Fair Trade" over "Free Trade" and a "Mixed Economy". Also I see things in a state of flux. There are times in a mixed economy to lighten up on regulation and lean toward a more open market...then there are times to tighten the belt so to speak.

I can't believe this.America has always been a free market economy that's why we have the greatest nation in the world and the best economy.When the goverment puts retrictions on things is when they mess up everything.You need to listen to Limbaugh or Sean Hannity,somebody is influencing you in the wrong way.