Remitted on the Cross or not? - Page 9

mfblume · #81 01-23-2008, 11:46 AM

Baptism is the answer of a good conscience. Every answer has a question.

So the question would be: Christ died as you for your sins and judgment. What do you say about it?

Answer, If I am dead, BURY ME, then!

Steve Epley · #82 01-23-2008, 04:22 PM

The penitent have a good consience if not they would not have repented. Repentance sets the heart TOWARD God and is NOT the finished product.

Adino · #83 02-11-2008, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

The penitent have a good consience if not they would not have repented. Repentance sets the heart TOWARD God and is NOT the finished product.

The penitent have a guilty conscience toward God not a good one. It's the recognition of depravity, i.e., the guilty conscience, which drives the soul toward one who can save from that depravity. The conscience of sins of the man returning to God needs to be purged. The worshipper purged is the worshipper with no more conscience of sins (Hebrews 9:9,14; 10:2).

The heart repenting from dead works is purged from dead works to serve the living God (Hebrews 6:1;9:14). The heart purged responds in baptism. Baptism is the response of the man who has no more guilty conscience of the sins Christ remitted on the cross. It is the response of a good conscience toward God. It is the answer of a good conscience toward God (1Peter 3:21).

acharris · #84 02-12-2008, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Im not sure what you mean by "sin he bore to be remitted".

He bore the penalty for all our sins on the cross...our sins are not remitted automatically at that moment, else we'd all be forgiven now already. His death on the cross is the means by which when I have faith and repent, my sins are forgiven.

When he bore the sins I don't think is even related to whether or not he could be raised. It was God's will regardless of the resurrection, that his death atones for our sins...not his resurrection.

I guess I'm just having a little trouble with the language of the questions

That's because you don't understand the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith.

He's not trying to trick you with his question. Start over, read it slowly, get your dictionary out, look up the words you don't understand and try again.

Adino · #85 02-12-2008, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Sinners can have a good conscience when they do good in a particular situation.

A repentant believer can have a good conscience in that he repented.

Mizpeh, the conscience of the penitent is only made good/purged when the penitent realizes his sins have been dealt with. The good conscience concerns a conscience purged of sin (Hebrew 10:2). Only those who have a good conscience toward God concerning sin are to be baptized. Baptism is the response of someone who has a good conscience toward God concerning sin (1Peter 3:21).

Adino · #86 02-17-2008, 12:06 PM

Mizpeh and all,

The law brought man to a consciousness of his sin (Romans 3:20; 7:7). The law was the schoolmaster bringing us to Christ as the remedy for that conscience of sin (Galatians 3:24-25). The conscience of sin of those who come to Christ's sacrifice in faith is made perfect and purged (Hebrews 9:9; 10:2). They receive/accept/enter into the remission of the cross by faith alone and are justified of all things (Acts 10:43; 13:38-39). Those who have a perfect, purged, GOOD conscience toward God concerning sin respond by being baptized (1Peter 3:21).

The heart's purification takes place BEFORE baptism. Baptism is the SUBSEQUENT response of the conscience already made good. Our hearts are purified by faith (Acts 15:9) before baptism. Peter understood that the heart of Cornelius was purified by faith alone. Once he realized this reality, baptism was offered. Cornelius responded in baptism only AFTER his conscience was made good/purified/purged before God. The baptism of Cornelius was the response of his good conscience toward God.

Come on, Mizpeh.... down deep you've got to know this is true.

mizpeh · #87 02-22-2008, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adino

Mizpeh, the conscience of the penitent is only made good/purged when the penitent realizes his sins have been dealt with. The good conscience concerns a conscience purged of sin (Hebrew 10:2). Only those who have a good conscience toward God concerning sin are to be baptized. Baptism is the response of someone who has a good conscience toward God concerning sin (1Peter 3:21).

I understand what you've written. You are saying a good conscience constitutes one that has been washed in the blood of Christ before baptism. Heb 9:14, Heb 10:22 because it is an "answer" or a response of obedience from a conscience that has already been made good.

The NASV and ESV are worded contrary to what you are saying.

3:21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, NASV

3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, ESV

What do you think of these translations?

mizpeh · #88 02-22-2008, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adino

Mizpeh and all,

The law brought man to a consciousness of his sin (Romans 3:20; 7:7). The law was the schoolmaster bringing us to Christ as the remedy for that conscience of sin (Galatians 3:24-25). The conscience of sin of those who come to Christ's sacrifice in faith is made perfect and purged (Hebrews 9:9; 10:2). They receive/accept/enter into the remission of the cross by faith alone and are justified of all things (Acts 10:43; 13:38-39). Those who have a perfect, purged, GOOD conscience toward God concerning sin respond by being baptized (1Peter 3:21).

The heart's purification takes place BEFORE baptism. Baptism is the SUBSEQUENT response of the conscience already made good. Our hearts are purified by faith (Acts 15:9) before baptism. Peter understood that the heart of Cornelius was purified by faith alone. Once he realized this reality, baptism was offered. Cornelius responded in baptism only AFTER his conscience was made good/purified/purged before God. The baptism of Cornelius was the response of his good conscience toward God.

Come on, Mizpeh.... down deep you've got to know this is true.

Adino,

I believe faith is a means to salvation and not the sole reason we are saved. Faith is the vehicle BY which we are born again. The new birth consists of water and Spirit....not faith alone. Faith alone is not the new birth.

Faith in Christ is the means BY which we repent. Without faith we would not repent. Faith is the means BY which we receive the Holy Spirit and all the promises of God. BY faith the elders obtained a good report.

In a similar fashion God BY wisdom and understanding created: Pr 3:19 The LORD BY wisdom hath founded the earth; BY understanding hath he established the heavens. Yet we know it was when He spoke things came into being. His speaking was directed by His wisdom and understanding.

Faith is the conduit that brings us to salvation. Faith alone does not save us. Faith alone is dead. BY faith we obey the gospel which saves us.

Acts 15:9....their hearts were purified in the waters of baptism BY faith. James even quotes from a verse which connects the name of the Lord which is called over them (vs 17). Faith is a means not the end.

I understand what you are saying. And you are stating your case very well but it doesn't harmonize scripture in my opinion.

SDG · #89 02-23-2008, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Baptism is the answer of a good conscience. Every answer has a question.

So the question would be: Christ died as you for your sins and judgment. What do you say about it?

Answer, If I am dead, BURY ME, then!

I don't get it ... Elder ...

In Romans 6 baptism is compare to HIS DEATH, BURIAL AND RESURRECTION.

WOULDN'T THEN THE ANSWER ALSO BE:

If I'm dead, let my die AGAIN.
If I'm dead, let me resurrect while I die and I'm buried simultaneously?

Brother Price · #90 02-23-2008, 06:16 AM

Baptism is a witness that we have been associated with the death, burial, resurrection of Christ. It is not our partaking in His sacrifice, but a witness that we have:

1. Taken His name in covenant relationship.
2. Had our sins remitted through our faith, repentance, and confessing of our sins.
3. Been partakers in His death burial resurrection.

Baptism is not us taking part, but a witness of the fact that we already have taken part. It is the answer of a good conscience because we have given public witness to the fact that we have had our sins remitted at Calvary. If baptism washed our sins away, then Calvary has no effect and His blood is secondary to the water.