The Difference Between the PCI of the Merger and the Current Counterfeits - Page 89

stmatthew · #**881** 02-25-2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Matt do you even remember why we came to James 2???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Well Matt .. Jesus fulfilled all righteousness - that is, to perform completely whatever is right .... didnt he? ...

The key question is "Did he it do it to become righteous??" ... of course not .... He is God ...

We are justified by faith ... declared righteous the moment we place our faith on Jesus Christ alone ... Matt ....

In Romans it says, "because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight . . . " (Rom. 3:20), and "for we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law," (Rom. 3:28), and "For what does the Scripture say? ‘And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness'" (Rom. 4:3), and "Therefore, having been justified by faith . . . " (Rom. 5:1), and "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness" (Rom. 4:5).

Baptism is an important, wonderful, and necessary step of obedience and identification .....

I know ... this is when you follow up ... with but faith without works is dead ... you're absolutely right .... but my faith doesn't validate my works ... my works validate my faith ... it's through faith that I obey and receive the benefits of Acts 2:38 and the rest of God's promises throughout the Scriptures

Thus sayeth an Apostolic Pentecostal Baptist Presbyterian child of God.

The highlighted above is the quote that brought us into James.

SDG · #**882** 02-25-2007, 05:04 PM

Notice I also said you would follow up with it and as predicted you did.

stmatthew · #**883** 02-25-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Notice I also said you would follow up with it and as predicted you did.

A Prophet indeed!!

I have enjoyed our conversation, but gotta get ready for church. Have a nice night.

SDG · #**884** 02-25-2007, 05:07 PM

In case you missed it ... now scaddadle ... you're going to be late !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I think we are missing each other here.

I believe that James states plainly that a man is justified (made in right standing with God) by faith that has corresponding works. It is the works that validate the faith as being living faith. No works = dead faith.

I see James as stating that Abraham was justified when he took Isaac upon the mountain to be sacrificed, and not merely when he believed God was able to raise him. James brings the balance to Pauls discourse on faith by stating that by the works, the faith is made complete, or perfected. Though it is faith that brings the reward, without the works the reward will not come, because faith is not completed.

Hence, I do not believe a person is saved just because they believe (have faith) on the Lord Jesus Christ. I understand that to have true faith demands that one have works. Salvation is based on the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. But our partaking of that salvation is based on our faith and our response (works).

Gotta git ready for church.

We agree on most points.. this is where we differ ... you say that faith demands our works ... and I say that true faith results in works ... interestingly ... when James brings up this discussion it's not about the 3-step salvation package sold by many ... notice verses 14-19 .... they discuss how if we claim to love our brother but their are no subsequent deeds .... our faith is dead, or not real thang....

____________________________

14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

__________________________________________

Let it be known ... so not to be misconstrued ... I believe that true faith will result in works ...the works will not make me right with God ... they are products of His righteousness ... if I willfully disobey any part of God's word ... Acts 2:38 and every other God-breathed scripture ... then I do not believe and will be condemned ... oh ... but thank you Lord for your grace and mercy.

Eph 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so no one may boast

SDG · #**885** 02-25-2007, 05:15 PM

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Originally Posted by Brett Prince

How about we stopped saying "faith is validated," but rather, "our faith shows itself 'real' or that it is 'living faith' shown forth?"

Works DO validate faith.

Agree.

Quote:

We show our faith BY our works.

Do you mean that works are often evidence of our faith?
then I agree .... if you are saying that the work, in it of itself, saves me?
[i.e. I must re-enact the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ] Nope.

Quote:

But, works without faith are dead works--leading to nothing.

That's bible.

Truly Blessed · #**886** 02-25-2007, 06:09 PM

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Originally Posted by Brother Price

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. (Hebrews 9:22)

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47)

Jesus Christ told us that remission of sins would be preached in His name starting at Jerusalem. In Acts 2:38, Peter says that we are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. Hebrews says without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. You may say what you want, and have any other doctrine, but the Bible is clear that the Blood is applied for remission of sins, and this takes place at baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. It does not take place at faith, for if it did, baptism would not be necessary for salvation, and the scriptures would be a liar. But, let God be true and every man a liar.

It does not concern me what type of church you are part of. If you have not been born again the Bible way, you are still as lost as the rankest of sinner. If you tell a sinner that he/she does not need to be baptized, that is false doctrine and against scripture. Everyone wants scripture, and it is above. Without shedding of blood, there is no remission. We receive remission when we are baptized. Thus, the blood is applied at baptism.

I wholeheartedly endorse being born again the Bible way, which according to Scripture taken in context happens when one places their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. No one that I know who has a true understanding of the gospel would ever tell anyone they don't need to be baptized. I have no problem with the Scriptures you quote, only the interpretation that is given these verses.

J-Roc · #**887** 02-25-2007, 06:43 PM

All 3 steppers are lost...

SDG · #**888** 02-25-2007, 06:54 PM

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Originally Posted by J-Roc

All 3 steppers are lost...

at least when it comes to interpreting the Word !!!!!

Steve Epley · #**889** 02-25-2007, 08:37 PM

The problem with 'faith-only' folk is they quit reading to soon move from chapter 4 of Romans to chapter 6 and it messes your faith-only doctrine up.
Paul sandwiches in chapter 6 to balance 4,5, that chapter tell our response to faith. Faith ALONE is dead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Faith is a verb not a noun.

Brett Prince · #**890** 02-25-2007, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Do you mean that works are often evidence of our faith?
then I agree .... if you are saying that the work, in it of itself, saves me?
[i.e. I must re-enact the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ] Nope.

I will say it like this...

Faith WILL result in works. Real faith is going to bring action. There are just certain things that faith is going to do, in proper response to the Bible.

I'll put it another way...

When you birth a lion, unless you deprive it of its normal environment, it is going to act a certain way. If it does not, it is not a real lion. If you deprive it for years of its natural habitat, it will revert to its instinct when given half a chance.

The same is true of the Christian. If they are really transformed, certain things are going to happen. If you deprive them of their supernatural atmosphere as a Christian, their soul is going to seek out that which they are designed for. It will happen...else their faith is dead...or WILL DIE might be another subject to discuss.