Isaiah 3 and jewelry...

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Haven't heard many from the faith alone crowd address that scripture?

Don't need to address this scripture it speaks for its self.

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

He (Jesus) was made perfect so that he became the author of eternal salvation.

We aready know this.

Oh you want to address the "unto all them that obey him" That is even easier we do obey him, the problem is what we see as the commandments of God and when they apply and what you see the commandments of God as.

I will say this though any time a group of people dictate to thier constituants how to live or not to live, that is in my mind defined as a cult. although what you are driving home are teachings of a nature that will not cause a person to break the law or sin you are just a thread from becoming a cult. Is it any wonder so many people are duped into cults like David Karesh ran his followers thought they were obeying the bible.

Maybe this is why the word say we are not to add to or take away from the teachings of said word. Or all the plagues will be place on our head.

Let me point out something, all the bickering back and forth on the passages in question, in Timothy and Peter, they say nothing about "jewlery" this is a word of your own definition. To some to wear a ring is not adorning the differance is you are adding your own definition of Gold and adorning and placing it on others and this is against the word of God. One in adding to the word of God and two telling a brother or sister what they are to see as sin.

I find it funny how some can pick and choose what they want to beleive and then push it on others. I don't see them obeying the the command to keep the Sabbath day and this is more of a command than they are making about thier pet peave of outward holiness. Tell me is the sabbath a commandment or not and tell me where did Jesus not keep the sabbath and where did he take away the keeping of the Sabbath? If any thing you are on your way to hell for not keeping the sabbath.

[Truthseeker]

You still didn't address salvation comes by obedience verses faith alone.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

You still didn't address salvation comes by obedience verses faith alone.

Ha Ha I guess I did'nt did I,

Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

taking the passage in context the obedience is what we do when we are saved, I could copy verse after verse that we are save by faith but I am sure you know them as well as anyone else.

Here is the thing those of us that believe we are saved by faith do not
believe we can live anyway we want to. But what we do believe at least what I believe is that my salvation is in full affect when when I believe in the work of the cross in Jesus Name.

As James tells us one that truely believes will manifest the works of righteousness or our faith is vain. The differance is I don't have to trust to works to make sure I am save. I can trust in the grace of God and rest in assurance of my salvation.

Those on the other hand feel they must fulfill various works ie baptism, holiness standards, tithing church attendance etc to be and stay saved. Those things, those of us that believe in faith still obey.

The only other thing is the definition of what those works are. There lies the real question.

[JN Anderson]

Originally Posted by rdp

"He has become the author of eternal salvation to those that O-B-E-Y Him." [He. 5]. You're as wrong as you can possibly be that our actions do not please God.

And, I will say again, YES, I believe that "saints" who wear jewelry are in rebellion against God's Word. What He's gonna' do about that is His business. What in the world can you not understand about this?

rdp, which particular verse would you cite to say that the Scriptures are completely/absolutely against the wearing of any or all forms of jewelry?

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Ha Ha I guess I did'nt did I,

Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

taking the passage in context the obedience is what we do when we are saved, I could copy verse after verse that we are save by faith but I am sure you know them as well as anyone else.

Here is the thing those of us that believe we are saved by faith do not
believe we can live anyway we want to. But what we do believe at least what I believe is that my salvation is in full affect when when I believe in the work of the cross in Jesus Name.

As James tells us one that truely believes will manifest the works of righteousness or our faith is vain. The differance is I don't have to trust to works to make sure I am save. I can trust in the grace of God and rest in assurance of my salvation.

Those on the other hand feel they must fulfill various works ie baptism, holiness standards, tithing church attendance etc to be and stay saved. Those things, those of us that believe in faith still obey.

The only other thing is the definition of what those works are. There lies the real question.

Works of righteousness and being baptized into the death of our lord are two different things. To believe biblically is to confess to God and be baptized based on that confession. Without true belief, true faith, there is no true salvation.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by JN Anderson

rdp, which particular verse would you cite to say that the Scriptures are completely/absolutely against the wearing of any or all forms of jewelry?

I Tim. 2:9-12, I Ptr. 3:3, Deut. 7:25, Ex. 33, Is. 3...for starters. Not sure if you've read most of this thread or not, but we've discussed these verses at length already.

BTW, if you disagree [not sure], what Scriptures would you cite that allow for ornamental decoration?

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by rdp

I Tim. 2:9-12, I Ptr. 3:3, Deut. 7:25, Ex. 33, Is. 3...for starters. Not sure if you've read most of this thread or not, but we've discussed these verses at length already.

BTW, if you disagree [not sure], what Scriptures would you cite that allow for ornamental decoration?

That's an interesting list lol

Why in the world would you need scriptures to SUPPORT doing something? Are you telling me if I can't find a scripture that explicitly ALLOWS me to brush my teeth that I can't brush my teeth? Ludicrous argument. If you feel there is a specific prohibition, that's something different and that's what we've spent the majority of our time arguing -- as well as pointed to the favorable and positive uses of jewelry in Scripture.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

That's an interesting list lol

Why, how nice of you stop by again O' great one. I see not much has changed in your "scholarship"...."LOL" indeed! Now, to address your assertions.....

Why in the world would you need scriptures to SUPPORT doing something? Are you telling me if I can't find a scripture that explicitly ALLOWS me to brush my teeth that I can't brush my teeth? Ludicrous argument.

Still comparing natural things [maintaining one's teeth] to unnatural things [decorative ornamentation on God's House] I see! Then YOU wanna' talk to ME about "ludicrous arguments". Seriously, you make me smile! Your pride just will not allow you to see your error will it Jeffrey?

If you feel there is a specific prohibition, that's something different and that's what we've spent the majority of our time arguing -- as well as pointed to the favorable and positive uses of jewelry in Scripture.

Then I can be decked out from head to toe in jewelry...right? How, then do you apply/obey "not with gold jewelry...." to your life? Ooops, that's right, ya' don't !!

Spare me Jeffrey, spare me....

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by rdp

Then I can be decked out from head to toe in jewelry...right? How, then do you apply/obey "not with gold jewelry...." to your life? Ooops, that's right, ya' don't !!

Spare me Jeffrey, spare me....

You guys were made to debate one another LOL.. this is hilarious

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey
That's an interesting list lol

Why, how nice of you stop by again O' great one. I see not much has changed in your "scholarship"...."LOL" indeed! Now, to address your assertions.....

Why in the world would you need scriptures to SUPPORT doing something? Are you telling me if I can't find a scripture that explicitly ALLOWS me to brush my teeth that I can't brush my teeth? Ludicrous argument.

Still comparing natural things [maintaining one's teeth] to unnatural things [decorative ornamentation on God's House] I see! Then YOU wanna' talk to ME about "ludicrous arguments". Seriously, you make me smile! Your pride just will not allow you to see your error will it Jeffrey?

If you feel there is a specific prohibition, that's something different and that's what we've spent the majority of our time arguing -- as well as pointed to the favorable and positive uses of jewelry in Scripture.

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

"Comparing natural things to spiritual things." Sounds so sophisticated. Kind of just rolls off the tongue when you say that huh? Do you sit up in your seat and smile like you just said something good?

And... of course you missed the whole point (as usual): one can't insist on some freakish prohibition (let's put jewelry aside so it's not too much for you at once and just say something freakish like no wearing of the color red), then demand scripture saying it's okay to accept that one has liberty. That doesn't make sense. The issue is not if there is permission for this particular, the issue is if there is an actual prohibition, which is the primary argument of this thread, as many angles as we've spun around in. So responding "Show me scripture that says 'Thou shalt own jewelry'" is rather ludicrous and an argumentative fallacy (thought you'd appreciate that).

Now, if you want we can just go back a dozen pages and review the "positive" uses of jewelry in the Bible versus the perceived "negative" uses and go from there I don't think it'd be hard to improve on Blumey's contribution in that area.

Originally Posted by rdp

Then I can be decked out from head to toe in jewelry...right? How, then do you apply/obey "not with gold jewelry...." to your life? Ooops, that's right, ya' don't !!

Spare me Jeffrey, spare me....

The RDP pattern to rebutting a point: Throw out some technical argumentative term you have in an old book sitting at your desk (makes you feel smart when you do that). Zoom into the issue to the point of missing the point entirely, and proceed to fight over details that have no meaning without context and then think you said something really smart. Good job!

Regarding your fixation with extremes (you've said this to Sam a million times now "so you can have a nose ring then" or something similar), SURE! Go for it! It's expedience would be judged on either a different biblical principle or teaching, or by the approval of the Spirit that works in us for sanctification. Our heart condemns us, not the objects.

You're "not with" argument is stale and old. We've gone circles here. Your most recent cutesy comeback just shows horrible ignorance... even for you.