JUST PREACHERS MAJOR Crackdown! turning WPF???????

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Comparing AFF to JP is pointless. JP was started because they wanted to have a forum run the way they wanted it run for Just Preachers. AFF is not JP. We don't do things just because JP does.

Prax, do you think it's right or wrong that the rest of us lowly worms

can't be apart of their forum?? what do you think the real reason was

for shutting the rest of us out??

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by StMark

I don't know who set that rule mike. I told you WHY I understood the reason they did BUT you should have a better clue then me about the preachers having to clean shaven since YOU were one!

It just seems to me, Mark, that since you are using this as a criterion for deciding whether someone is Pentecostal or not, you should understand where it originated and why it is perpetuated.

The Bible says nothing about facial hair, the Manual says nothing about facial hair, yet it has become a determining factor in your mind, at least, as to whether or not someone is Pentecostal.

I would just expect you to know why since you place so much emphasis on it.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

I always admit when I'm wrong.

In this case, I'm not.

Oh but you are !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[James Griffin]

Cut and pasted from another thread


THIS SHOULD HELP GET US TO THE 1,000 MARK !!!!

_________________________________________________
Early Apostolic attitudes:

* St Clement of Alexandria

o "The hair of the chin showed him to be a man." St Clement of Alexandria (c.195, E), 2.271

o "How womanly it is for one who is a man to comb himself and shave himself with a razor, for the sake of fine effect, and to arrange his hair at the mirror, shave his cheeks, pluck hairs out of them, and smooth them!…For God wished women to be smooth and to rejoice in their locks alone growing spontaneously, as a horse in his mane. But He adorned man like the lions, with a beard, and endowed him as an attribute of manhood, with a hairy chest--a sign of strength and rule." St. Clement of Alexandria, 2.275

o "This, then, is the mark of the man, the beard. By this, he is seen to be a man. It is older than Eve. It is the token of the superior nature….It is therefore unholy to desecrate the symbol of manhood, hairiness.” St. Clement of Alexandria, 2.276

o "It is not lawful to pluck out the beard, man’s natural and noble adornment." St. Clement of Alexandria, 2.277



* St Cyprian

o "In their manners, there was no discipline. In men, their beards were defaced." St Cyprian (c. 250, W), 5.438

o "The beard must not be plucked. 'You will not deface the figure of your beard'." (Leviticus 19:27) St. Cyprian, 5.553



* Lactantius

o "The nature of the beard contributes in an incredible degree to distinguish the maturity of bodies, or to distinguish the sex, or to contribute to the beauty of manliness and strength." Lactantius (c. 304-314, W), 7.288



* Apostolic Constitutions

o "Men may not destroy the hair of their beards and unnaturally change the form of a man. For the Law says, “You will not deface your beards.” For God the Creator has made this decent for women, but has determined that it is unsuitable for men." Apostolic Constitutions (compiled c.390, E) 7.392.

Furthermore, in later centuries the pope ordered priests to start being clean shaven around the same time as he mandated celibacy, both were attempts to emasculate the priesthood. The first thing the protestant minsters did to show they were neither celibate nor catholic was grow a beard. Likewise I choose not to be mistaken for a papist !!!



So after much soul searching even though my clean shaven effeminate looking brethren choose to take the pulpit in such an unApostolic condition (although it was the only practice of the first century church) I have decided to not oppose them in the pulpit as long as they don't shave that morning and have at least started their beard.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

It just seems to me, Mark, that since you are using this as a criterion for deciding whether someone is Pentecostal or not, you should understand where it originated and why it is perpetuated.

The Bible says nothing about facial hair, the Manual says nothing about facial hair, yet it has become a determining factor in your mind, at least, as to whether or not someone is Pentecostal.

I would just expect you to know why since you place so much emphasis on it.

Mike, again you are wrong! I didn't say having a beard was a criterion for someone being Pentecostal. I just meant that he didn't have the conservative Pentecostal preacher's look and even james agreed

[Michael Phelps]

Wow that's pretty informative.

Thanks for posting this, JG.

[George]

Originally Posted by StMark

Prax, do you think it's right or wrong that the rest of us lowly worms

can't be apart of their forum?? what do you think the real reason was

for shutting the rest of us out??

I'm not Prax, but just maybe (hehehehehehe) they all left AFF because they actually enjoyed all that "unholiness" but couldn't let anyone know so they started a closed forum full of "ministering" where they can be just as "unholy" as AFF but the saints will never know.

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by stmark

prax, do you think it's right or wrong that the rest of us lowly worms

can't be apart of their forum?? What do you think the real reason was

for shutting the rest of us out??

ban him he called himself a worm !!!!

a lowly one at that

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by StMark

Prax, do you think it's right or wrong that the rest of us lowly worms

can't be apart of their forum?? what do you think the real reason was

for shutting the rest of us out??

Honestly I don't think it's wrong, however I find making the forum questionable. We speak out against secret societes yet some of us are having discussions we feel for one reason or another other non preacher Pentecostals should read. Why? If the discussions are not about others personally, not about other forums what content of a preachers forum are not good for other eyes to see?

[StMark]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

Cut and pasted from another thread


THIS SHOULD HELP GET US TO THE 1,000 MARK !!!!

_________________________________________________
Early Apostolic attitudes:

* St Clement of Alexandria

o "The hair of the chin showed him to be a man." St Clement of Alexandria (c.195, E), 2.271

o "How womanly it is for one who is a man to comb himself and shave himself with a razor, for the sake of fine effect, and to arrange his hair at the mirror, shave his cheeks, pluck hairs out of them, and smooth them!…For God wished women to be smooth and to rejoice in their locks alone growing spontaneously, as a horse in his mane. But He adorned man like the lions, with a beard, and endowed him as an attribute of manhood, with a hairy chest--a sign of strength and rule." St. Clement of Alexandria, 2.275

o "This, then, is the mark of the man, the beard. By this, he is seen to be a man. It is older than Eve. It is the token of the superior nature….It is therefore unholy to desecrate the symbol of manhood, hairiness.” St. Clement of Alexandria, 2.276

o "It is not lawful to pluck out the beard, man’s natural and noble adornment." St. Clement of Alexandria, 2.277



* St Cyprian

o "In their manners, there was no discipline. In men, their beards were defaced." St Cyprian (c. 250, W), 5.438

o "The beard must not be plucked. 'You will not deface the figure of your beard'." (Leviticus 19:27) St. Cyprian, 5.553



* Lactantius

o "The nature of the beard contributes in an incredible degree to distinguish the maturity of bodies, or to distinguish the sex, or to contribute to the beauty of manliness and strength." Lactantius (c. 304-314, W), 7.288



* Apostolic Constitutions

o "Men may not destroy the hair of their beards and unnaturally change the form of a man. For the Law says, “You will not deface your beards.” For God the Creator has made this decent for women, but has determined that it is unsuitable for men." Apostolic Constitutions (compiled c.390, E) 7.392.

Furthermore, in later centuries the pope ordered priests to start being clean shaven around the same time as he mandated celibacy, both were attempts to emasculate the priesthood. The first thing the protestant minsters did to show they were neither celibate nor catholic was grow a beard. Likewise I choose not to be mistaken for a papist !!!



So after much soul searching even though my clean shaven effeminate looking brethren choose to take the pulpit in such an unApostolic condition (although it was the only practice of the first century church) I have decided to not oppose them in the pulpit as long as they don't shave that morning and have at least started their beard.

James, what was your reason for posting all of this??