Tithing…Is it a command?

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Sean

Brother GS, The Law is ended for the believer(notice how you just built a doctrine from the Law....Numbers), WE are now priests and Jesus is our High Priest. There is NO man to tithe to in the "stead" of Jesus in N.T. scripture as far as ministry is concerned. We can give to one another though, and Jesus will consider it giving to Himself.

You saw my point right?

The ministry today, considers themselves as intercessors and priests to the saints.

That is segregating themselves as "clergy" or "representatives" of God to the "carnal" laity.....

Ask any of them...they teach that they are the Levites and the saints are Israel. They teach this nonsense to fool the saints into submitting and 'stay down" spiritually, remaining spiritually ignorant and never reaching the potential as true elders of the church.

I built no law in Numbers, but only made a point based on your comment "if we should tithe to anyone we should tithe to ourselves."

I am not making commands or orders at my local church you must tithe nor do I even mention giving except on very rare occassions. Tithing is a method that people througthout the ages have chosen to give and I don't think it mandatory, but I do think it is a good way to discipline yourself to give. If I only gave on impulse my giving would be far less, but by tithing I practice puting God first in my finances and it is a personal decision for men and every other person who makes. As far as heaven or hell that is something everyone will answer to God for personally.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Sean, Do you have any spiritual authority in your life?
Yes brother, the Word of God and the Holy Ghost..The men I have been rubbing shoulders with just continue teaching lies to the saints and I cannot endure these heretics anymore. I will not submit to a LIAR anymore. If I can find an honest minister, I will submit in a heartbeat.This is not about PRIDE, it is about HONESTY.

What does it mean to submit ourselves one to another. I don't make this comment to do anything with tithing. If you isolate yourself from the body it is like severing a limb the result you die.\
I understand what you are saying, but I actually have been at peace with God and myself since I left the church for the 1st time in decades. The only part that is unresolved is the ministry I was forced out of for questioning tithing

I regularly learn from other men. I believe in church's being structured in a way that prevents a monarchy rule, but I also believe that if submission only takes place when you agree than that isn't submission. Submitting is yielding to another's will over your own.

If my pastor asks me to tithe? I will if I can.

Then you are part of the problem, and not the solution.

If I don't trust the leaders in my church, I am gonna pray for the Lord to send me elsewhere.
I did, and Jesus removed me from the heresies, instructing me to deal with this issue publically.

If my pastor tells me I am going to hell if I don't tithe. I would probably want to talk about it deeper privately and then I would tithe if I could (tithing is not explicitly a salvation issue, but giving is).

You need to MAN UP to the heretics around you brother...thank GOD that Martin Luther stood up to the heretical church teachings of his day. He was a REAL man!

I would then pray for him and I would pray for God's direction. Just because someone isn't doctrinally perfect in every way I will be careful to keep unity as long as the gospel of Jesus Christ is the foundation.

Again...when are you going to see that MAMMON is the great stumblingblock to the world and the church?
I see you capitulating to the "men of God" in your life, whether you believe it or not. Did you know that the "fearful" will lose out with God?
If the Lord has chosen you for something, and you refuse(as in showing you this false doctrine), you could be lost for not dealing with it.
The man with 1 talent is an example of that...he was "afraid" and hid it . He was afraid of what others thought of him in his PRIDE.

[UnTraditional]

Sean, I pray for your healing man. Seriously, you have a spirit of rebellion and bitterness, and I pray that God would both heal and deliver you. I have been like this so many times in my past that it almost destroyed me. And this is not just about the tithe, but is about your entire spiritual well being. I pray the God of all hope would do such a work in your life of His grace and truth, that even you would be absolutely amazed. I say all this in His love.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I built no law in Numbers, but only made a point based on your comment "if we should tithe to anyone we should tithe to ourselves."

I am not making commands or orders at my local church you must tithe nor do I even mention giving except on very rare occassions. Tithing is a method that people througthout the ages have chosen to give and I don't think it mandatory, but I do think it is a good way to discipline yourself to give. If I only gave on impulse my giving would be far less, but by tithing I practice puting God first in my finances and it is a personal decision for men and every other person who makes. As far as heaven or hell that is something everyone will answer to God for personally.

Why must you use the LAW as a giving point to your church?

Why not simply use the N.T. practices?

You do know you are now under a new covenant, right?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

Sean, I pray for your healing man. Seriously, you have a spirit of rebellion and bitterness, and I pray that God would both heal and deliver you. I have been like this so many times in my past that it almost destroyed me. And this is not just about the tithe, but is about your entire spiritual well being. I pray the God of all hope would do such a work in your life of His grace and truth, that even you would be absolutely amazed. I say all this in His love.

Oh stop it!

[good samaritan]

Someone mentioned a few threads back that tithing was a pagan practice. They also insinuated that Abraham picked it up from the pagans and it sounded as if they even felt like it wasn't even from God at all. We are debating from the scriptures and our interpretation of scriptures, but that is going out of the scriptures a little much don't you think.(the Old Testament is necessary scripture)

Where do think the pagans got some of their ideas. Who came first the pagans or Adam, the pagans or Noah. The oldest religion in the world is Christianity. It may not always have been labeled as such, but the one true God revealed in Jesus Christ is the first God ever known. If anyone initially picked up any ideas it is the pagans from us not us from the pagans. Have you noticed that God requires blood sacrifice and that Noah after coming of the ark that was the first thing he did.

Where do you think most likely the pagans got the teaching to sacrifice. Of course I believe that they misconstrued it by doing it for false gods and by ungodly practices, but it was developed in the book of Genesis by God.My point is I don't think that tithing began by the pagans I think that it was began by the people of God. No scriptural basis just what I believe and that is all would tell anyone.

I don't force my personal opinions or hunches on other people, but I do share them when I feel it is needed.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

Let me state this clearly, I do not tithe to the Church, nor do I tithe to my Bishop. I tithe as unto the Lord. It is an act of obedience and worship. And, despite my family going through hard right now, I am still worshiping and being obedient to the tithe. Why? Because something my Bishop said, or something some prosperity preacher said? No, because I look at the Cross, and see my life, and Jesus is worth it.

Now, please understand the difference between tithing and offerings. I give an offering as unto the Lord as well, and He does bless this as well. I support the man and woman of God through my offerings to them as unto the Lord, because a workman is worthy of his/her hire. As a minister, I do not elevate myself. No. I hold myself to a higher standard, a stronger standard. Therein is the difference. I am no mediator. I am simply someone who God has called to use where I am where He wants me to be how He wants.

Sean, I do not know who hurt you. I wish they would repent of this before you, and come and ask forgiveness. I do pray, however, that God would allow your heart as well to be humbled before Him so that He would minister healing and hope more than you ever thought possible.

Brother, this may sound foreign to you. But if you DENOUNCE tithing publically, the LORD JESUS will help you with your financial situation. I did that very thing and the exact thing happened to me!

Give it a try, the Lord want to bless you, but MALACHI stands in your way.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Sean

Why must you use the LAW as a giving point to your church?

Why not simply use the N.T. practices?

You do know you are now under a new covenant, right?

That is what the old testament is written for. I preached from my Habakuk last night. Although the fig tree shall not blossom and the olive shall fail.......... I will rejoice in the God of my salvation. Sean your whole bible is important not just the NT. The apostles quoted and made reference from things in the law so it is apostolic to do so.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Someone mentioned a few threads back that tithing was a pagan practice. They also insinuated that Abraham picked it up from the pagans and it sounded as if they even felt like it wasn't even from God at all. We are debating from the scriptures and our interpretation of scriptures, but that is going out of the scriptures a little much don't you think.(the Old Testament is necessary scripture)

Where do think the pagans got some of their ideas. Who came first the pagans or Adam, the pagans or Noah. The oldest religion in the world is Christianity. It may not always have been labeled as such, but the one true God revealed in Jesus Christ is the first God ever known. If anyone initially picked up any ideas it is the pagans from us not us from the pagans. Have you noticed that God requires blood sacrifice and that Noah after coming of the ark that was the first thing he did.

Where do you think most likely the pagans got the teaching to sacrifice. Of course I believe that they misconstrued it by doing it for false gods and by ungodly practices, but it was developed in the book of Genesis by God.My point is I don't think that tithing began by the pagans I think that it was began by the people of God. No scriptural basis just what I believe and that is all would tell anyone.

I don't force my personal opinions or hunches on other people, but I do share them when I feel it is needed.

Brother, I would like to ask you to just "glance" at this site.....http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/

It is the best non tithing site I have seen and then you could truly understand what helped me get into my mindset.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Sean

Brother, this may sound foreign to you. But if you DENOUNCE tithing publically, the LORD JESUS will help you with your financial situation. I did that very thing and the exact thing happened to me!

Give it a try, the Lord want to bless you, but MALACHI stands in your way.

Sean you put your self in the place of God to say who will God is going to bless for doing certain things. This man tithing is personal and as he has said he does it unto the Lord not man. You are doing the same thing that you are accusing tithe preachers of doing. You are telling them they are going to hell for tithing and that God isn't going to bless them unless they stop. You are very mixed up. God maybe working something in untraditional's life that may be the reason for his hardships right now. Life isn't always going to be good. There are going to be times of prosperity and times of famine in life. this is natural.