Tithing…Is it a command?

[Sean]

Brother, these guys are covinced in their minds, without scripture of course, that the pastors are a type of OT priests(levites) and we are Israel(spiritually lower on the totem pole)....

This is completely bogus and belittling of the calling of us all.....1 Peter 2:9

9 But ye(we) are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that we (us) should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Revelation 1:6


And hath made us(you and I) kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.



Their teachings place themselves in a mediator role between us and God....1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus


These men actually believe that they are some kind of higher calling than us and a link to get blessings from the Lord.....LOL

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Sean

Brother, these guys are covinced in their minds, without scripture of course, that the pastors are a type of OT priests(levites) and we are Israel(spiritually lower on the totem pole)....

This is completely bogus and belittling of the calling of us all.....1 Peter 2:9

9 But ye(we) are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that we (us) should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Revelation 1:6


And hath made us(you and I) kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.



Their teachings place themselves in a mediator role between us and God....1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus


These men actually believe that they are some kind of higher calling than us and a link to get blessings from the Lord.....LOL

Could not have said it any better. There needs to be an alternative and letting the Holy Ghost lead our gatherings.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Could not have said it any better. There needs to be an alternative and letting the Holy Ghost lead our gatherings.

The example of the early church is clear.

(NLT) Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers.

(NIV) So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers.

The early church was led by men filled with the Holy Ghost.
There is no other alternative.
Only those in rebellion refuse to be under Godly leadership.

When I was in the military we had leaders whom we had to obey, even if we disagree with them, to do otherwise was treason.

As a Christian in the church I often obeyed my pastors even when I disagreed with them.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

The example of the early church is clear.

(NLT) Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers.

(NIV) So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers.

The early church was led by men filled with the Holy Ghost.
There is no other alternative.
Only those in rebellion refuse to be under Godly leadership.

When I was in the military we had leaders whom we had to obey, even if we disagree with them, to do otherwise was treason.

As a Christian in the church I often obeyed my pastors even when I disagreed with them.

Maybe we should try the militaristic approach...LOL...then we can court martial the rebels.

Pastor=4 star general
Co Pastor=general
Youth Pastor=major
Music Director=colonel
Soul Winners=lieutenants
New Converts= privates
Unsaved Visitors=recruits

Boot Camp=agree to be lifetime tithing soldier and submit ourselves blindly...LOL

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

The example of the early church is clear.

(NLT) Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers.

(NIV) So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers.

The early church was led by men filled with the Holy Ghost.
There is no other alternative.
Only those in rebellion refuse to be under Godly leadership.

When I was in the military we had leaders whom we had to obey, even if we disagree with them, to do otherwise was treason.

As a Christian in the church I often obeyed my pastors even when I disagreed with them.

Yes they are a part of it too. I was thinking about non-forced-tithing churches for an alternative. Sorry-I should have been more clear.

[good samaritan]

Still trying to make tithing a suggested "principle" I see....hmmm.

Not a principle just and example

Again, that is how it all started in the first place. Who cares whether Abraham gave to the pagan "property tax" of tithing. Who cares if this tax was ingrained in the head of Jacob to the point of making a "bargain" with God.(though he had no place to give the 10th, so he just used it for personal stuff). Who cares if the tithe concept was adopted into the Law of Moses as a fundraiser to keep the temple worship sustained financially.

You don't care about these scriptures in your bible?

Have you thought of what the "temple" of God is today?

It is the Church. the body of Christ not made with man's hands.

Have you thought of who the "priests" of God are today?

Every born again believer is a royal priesthood.

We really should tithe to OURSELVES, and take care of our "priestly" families if we are to tithe at all.

The levitical priesthood (church) even paid tithes to the high priest(Jesus).

Numbers 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.

Now I ask you. Who is our high priest?

When I tithe or freewill give I am giving it to Jesus.

Mt 25:35 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

This passage has nothing to do with tithing only to do with giving. Our church proceeds go to feed bus kids in our city. Our Church proceeds has purchased people clothing. We do hospital and nursing home visits. we have done jail ministry in the local co. jail. We have also put homeless families up in a hotel.

The tithes our assembly receives has went and continues to go to things like what Jesus commands. What is the problem with people tithing. I didn't say it is salvational only that it has biblical origins. All I basically said is that tithing is a Biblically based good place to start and I even verified it is not heaven or hell. If your main problem is that you think that pastors shouldn't receive compensation for the work they do it sounds like you have other issues. I am telling you that I don't agree with mandatory enforced tithing, but you are condemning the teaching of tithes even as an example of giving even if it isn't presented in an obligatory fashion and is left up to the giver to decide.

[good samaritan]

Brother, these guys are covinced in their minds, without scripture of course, that the pastors are a type of OT priests(levites) and we are Israel(spiritually lower on the totem pole)....

I never made any of these claims of anyone lower or higher than another. Sounds like their is some pride issues you may be dealing with.

This is completely bogus and belittling of the calling of us all
These men actually believe that they are some kind of higher calling than us and a link to get blessings from the Lord.....LOL

I believe it should be freewill whether you tithe or just randomly give what is on your own heart to give. Any compensation I have received through the ministry has only been used to provide for my family and to allow me to give more of my time to the ministry of others. I do not begin to start naming things that I have done to support the people in the congregation where I pastor. I can say to be such a holier than thou you have broad brushed me to be I have done many things as of recently that the people who are lower in class(according to you) probably wouldn't be doing for one another.

I think those that are greatest among us should be servants of all.

You really sound that you struggle with giving to another minister, because it makes you feel they are higher than you.(sounds like pride)

I am glad to have people over me(I submit myself to others). I can also say that Jesus has used other men in my life to brought me to him. Paul refers to himself as being some people's spiritual father. Sean you sound as if you feel like you owe no man anything in life and you have done everything on your own. I hope I am misunderstanding your posts. The body has many parts and we need one another and it is not that one is better, but all has different purposes.

[good samaritan]

Sean, Do you have any spiritual authority in your life? What does it mean to submit ourselves one to another. I don't make this comment to do anything with tithing. If you isolate yourself from the body it is like severing a limb the result you die. I regularly learn from other men. I believe in church's being structured in a way that prevents a monarchy rule, but I also believe that if submission only takes place when you agree than that isn't submission. Submitting is yielding to another's will over your own.

If my pastor asks me to tithe? I will if I can.
If I don't trust the leaders in my church, I am gonna pray for the Lord to send me elsewhere.
If my pastor tells me I am going to hell if I don't tithe. I would probably want to talk about it deeper privately and then I would tithe if I could (tithing is not explicitly a salvation issue, but giving is). I would then pray for him and I would pray for God's direction. Just because someone isn't doctrinally perfect in every way I will be careful to keep unity as long as the gospel of Jesus Christ is the foundation.

[UnTraditional]

Originally Posted by Sean

Brother, these guys are covinced in their minds, without scripture of course, that the pastors are a type of OT priests(levites) and we are Israel(spiritually lower on the totem pole)....

This is completely bogus and belittling of the calling of us all.....1 Peter 2:9

9 But ye(we) are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that we (us) should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Revelation 1:6


And hath made us(you and I) kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.



Their teachings place themselves in a mediator role between us and God....1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus


These men actually believe that they are some kind of higher calling than us and a link to get blessings from the Lord.....LOL

Let me state this clearly, I do not tithe to the Church, nor do I tithe to my Bishop. I tithe as unto the Lord. It is an act of obedience and worship. And, despite my family going through hard right now, I am still worshiping and being obedient to the tithe. Why? Because something my Bishop said, or something some prosperity preacher said? No, because I look at the Cross, and see my life, and Jesus is worth it.

Now, please understand the difference between tithing and offerings. I give an offering as unto the Lord as well, and He does bless this as well. I support the man and woman of God through my offerings to them as unto the Lord, because a workman is worthy of his/her hire. As a minister, I do not elevate myself. No. I hold myself to a higher standard, a stronger standard. Therein is the difference. I am no mediator. I am simply someone who God has called to use where I am where He wants me to be how He wants.

Sean, I do not know who hurt you. I wish they would repent of this before you, and come and ask forgiveness. I do pray, however, that God would allow your heart as well to be humbled before Him so that He would minister healing and hope more than you ever thought possible.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Not a principle just and example



You don't care about these scriptures in your bible?


It is the Church. the body of Christ not made with man's hands.


Every born again believer is a royal priesthood.



The levitical priesthood (church) even paid tithes to the high priest(Jesus).

Numbers 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.

Now I ask you. Who is our high priest?

When I tithe or freewill give I am giving it to Jesus.

Mt 25:35 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

This passage has nothing to do with tithing only to do with giving. Our church proceeds go to feed bus kids in our city. Our Church proceeds has purchased people clothing. We do hospital and nursing home visits. we have done jail ministry in the local co. jail. We have also put homeless families up in a hotel.

The tithes our assembly receives has went and continues to go to things like what Jesus commands. What is the problem with people tithing. I didn't say it is salvational only that it has biblical origins. All I basically said is that tithing is a Biblically based good place to start and I even verified it is not heaven or hell. If your main problem is that you think that pastors shouldn't receive compensation for the work they do it sounds like you have other issues. I am telling you that I don't agree with mandatory enforced tithing, but you are condemning the teaching of tithes even as an example of giving even if it isn't presented in an obligatory fashion and is left up to the giver to decide.

Brother GS, The Law is ended for the believer(notice how you just built a doctrine from the Law....Numbers), WE are now priests and Jesus is our High Priest. There is NO man to tithe to in the "stead" of Jesus in N.T. scripture as far as ministry is concerned. We can give to one another though, and Jesus will consider it giving to Himself.

You saw my point right?

The ministry today, considers themselves as intercessors and priests to the saints.

That is segregating themselves as "clergy" or "representatives" of God to the "carnal" laity.....

Ask any of them...they teach that they are the Levites and the saints are Israel. They teach this nonsense to fool the saints into submitting and 'stay down" spiritually, remaining spiritually ignorant and never reaching the potential as true elders of the church.