The AntiChrist and Rapture Fraud?

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by mfblume

1Co 6:13 KJV Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

1Co 6:19 KJV What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

SIMILAR TO...

2Th 2:4 KJV Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2Th 2:8 KJV And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The NT temple of the Holy Ghost is the NT believers body. But there is plenty of evidence in scripture that the temple of the Jews will be rebuilt. They are even now preparing to rebuild the temple. Jesus said that the A. of D. will stand in the holy place. When that happens the great tribulation begins acc. to Mt. 24.

You are piece mealing the scriptures to support your doctrine, but it fails to pass muster when applied to the WHOLE of the Bible.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by mfblume

ANYONE who denies Jesus is antichrist, whether they seek world domination or not. ANTICHRIST is simply denying Jesus came in flesh. It would be as odd to say such a leader is THE ANTICHRIST as it would be to say "THE SINNER is going to take over the world." ANYONE is a sinner who is not saved, as much as ANYONE is antichrist who denies Christ. What is the difference?

Huge difference.

The Bible specifically states that there will be an individual who will make war with the saints, have dominion on the earth for three and half years, will have a mouth speaking great things, will have a religion built around him as he claims divine prerogatives, will desecrate the rebuilt temple of the Jews, and will come in military mught against Jerusalem.

Why can't you concede that there can be BOTH a spirit of antichrist and an individual that will be possessed by that spirit and embody everything the Bible says about that spirit?

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

How could scriptures that talk about a Holy place apply to us today if there is no present Temple in Jerusalem ?

Its a prophecy yet to be fulfilled.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Huge difference.

The Bible specifically states that there will be an individual who will make war with the saints, have dominion on the earth for three and half years, will have a mouth speaking great things, will have a religion built around him as he claims divine prerogatives, will desecrate the rebuilt temple of the Jews, and will come in military mught against Jerusalem.

Why can't you concede that there can be BOTH a spirit of antichrist and an individual that will be possessed by that spirit and embody everything the Bible says about that spirit?

Interesting points!!!!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

The NT temple of the Holy Ghost is the NT believers body. But there is plenty of evidence in scripture that the temple of the Jews will be rebuilt. They are even now preparing to rebuild the temple. Jesus said that the A. of D. will stand in the holy place. When that happens the great tribulation begins acc. to Mt. 24.

You are piece mealing the scriptures to support your doctrine, but it fails to pass muster when applied to the WHOLE of the Bible.

Speaking of the whole of the bible, reaidng the WHOLE of Matthew 24 says that the same generation who sees the temple destroyed stone by stone would see ALL the events listed in Matt 24. And Jesus spoke to the generation standing in front of Him. And the temple was destroyed stone by stone in AD70.

He sad YOU YOU YOU YOU would hear and see, speaking to the people standing there that day. Not people who were not there 2000 years later.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Huge difference.

The Bible specifically states that there will be an individual who will make war with the saints, have dominion on the earth for three and half years, will have a mouth speaking great things, will have a religion built around him as he claims divine prerogatives, will desecrate the rebuilt temple of the Jews, and will come in military mught against Jerusalem.

Why can't you concede that there can be BOTH a spirit of antichrist and an individual that will be possessed by that spirit and embody everything the Bible says about that spirit?

I think you read nothing I said.

There is NO DIFFERENCE between calling any certain person THE SINNER than THE ANTICHRIST. To say different is to simply retain a traditional idea out of pure desire to retain it, alone. Not for Bible truth's sake.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Nothing in I John???

You must not be reading carefully or haven't given much time to study on this subject. Check out I John 2:18:

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Did you read that? John said that any thought of "antichrist should come" is blown away with the idea that there were MANY ANTICHRISTS in John's day. And John said that in HIS DAY, 2000 years ago, they were in the "LAST TIME".

John makes the distinction between a plurality of antichrists and a singular antichrist. Antichrist is a spirit that will manifest itself in two ways: a system by which the world will oppose Jesus and an individual leader that will lead that system.

No way. It is one who denies Jesus came in FLESH ALONE.

You don't have the scriptural suppoert to back up this claim.

I have NOTHING BUT scriptural support. Nothing John said was ANYTHING SIMILAR to your sion of perdition. You are simply taking one verse from an unrelated issue and juggling it together with words of John that concerned HIS DAY and spirits and people (PLURAL) who deny Jesus' incarnation.

The doctrine of the Antichrist is replete throughout Daniel who talks about the prince that should come, the beast, the little horn. Paul talks about him as the son of perdition the man of sin. John talks about him in Revelation as the beast.

No, the beast is not any antichrist. That is a false tradition based upon juggling together unrelated scritpures. Who said the little horn is the beast of Rev and the "son of perdition" in 2 Thess and the "antichrist" of 1 John.

An individual leader who has dominion and world influence at the time of the end is found over and over again in scripture.

No, the spirit of antichrist denies Jesus came in flesh, with nothing to do with world domination. The little horn of Daniel is Antiochus Epiphanes of pre-Christ years in Grecian conquests. The Beast of Revelation is a character who woudl do his dirty work "shortly" after John was told about him in Revelation, not thousands of years after. Every single one of these are unrelated to the other.

John's epistles address both the individual called Antichrist and the spirit that exisits alread in the world.

Where is the scriptural proof for your claim?

Read this and show me where it says that antichrist is a world dictator:

1Jo 4:1-3 KJV Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (2) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: (3) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1Jo 2:22 KJV Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

2Jo 1:7 KJV For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

1Jo 2:18 KJV Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

NOTHING in the above says ANYTHING about a world dictator.

When would Rev come to pass? Daniel was told to seal the book because the time of the end was not yet, and that was only 500 years before John was told to NOT seal it because the time was at hand.

Dan 12:4 KJV But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Dan 12:9 KJV And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Rev 22:10 KJV And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

Couple that together with:

1Jo 2:18 KJV Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

IT IS THE LAST TIME, John said. Daniel was told to seal the book because the time of the end was not yet. But John, who said "IT IS THE LAST TIME" also was told to not seal the book because the time was AT HAND.

You cannot allow for these verses. Sorry, I bought that game for far too long before I started actually reading these verses.

[RevDWW]

Speaking of Matt 24; when did this take place?

Matthew 24:29 - Matthew 24:31 (KJV) 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

Seems the underlined portion reminds me of another verse that talks about a catching away.........

[mfblume]

You did not answer nor address my points, Revdww. What about the sealing of the book UNTIL the end?

Your reference is not the rapture or catching away. That is written about in other parts of the bible. Reading from Matthew 21 through all the way to the end of chapter 24, shows the entire context of Israel contrasted with the Church, and how what Israel would become bereft of what the church would possess instead. Every parable and every instance in those chapters is either about that or about warning the church to remain true to Christ or else lose out as well. And then when we come to the end of Matthew 23, we read this, similar in words to your quote:

Mat 23:36-38 KJV Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. (37) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! (38) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Mat 24:31 KJV And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 24:34 KJV Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. (including temple destruction of AD70)

What is the gathering together above about? Rapture? Of course not. And contrasting that with your reference, we see it is GATHERING IN SAFETY from a coming destruction. God would have gathered Jerusalem together, but now the elect church alone is gathered from that destruction.

Again, the people to whom Jesus spoke would see ALL those things. And that included the temple destruction of AD70.

THANK GOD THE EARLY CHURCH TOOK THOSE WORDS AS REFERRING TO THE DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM AND FLED TO PELLA AND NOT A CHRISTIAN PERISHED THAT DAY. That is HISTORY.

Luk 21:20-21 KJV And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. (21) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Mat 24:16 KJV Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

What would only those in Judaea being told to flee have anything to do with a world-wide tribulation where everyone everywhere would have to flee???

Those in Judaea flee. They would be gathered together IN SAFETY, as a hen gathers her chicks.

[mfblume]

John was told:

Rev 1:1 KJV The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:


Rev 1:3 KJV Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Rev 22:6 KJV And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

Rev 22:7 KJV Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 3:11 KJV Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Rev 22:10 KJV And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

The only way this makes sense, in light of Daniel, 500 years earlier, being told to SEAL the book until the time of the end, and John told to NOT seal it because the time was at hand, is to realize that it occurred in far less a time than 500 years from John's day.

Does AT HAND mean thousands of years later???

Mat 3:2 KJV And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.