Why do we use trinitarian..........

So god could supernaturally protect the Bible throughout the ages, but he was sleeping the day that the trinitarians snuck in with their evil plans?

By the way, I am not educated either... I am a college dropout.

[sola gratia]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Sorry, Chan, I wasn't clear. I can't find the teaching or concept of the Trinity in the Bible. It's not taught in the OT or the NT. I didn't mean the word, Trinity. I quoted from the creed CARM had listed. I believe those at CARM think of themselves as being ORTHODOX.

Oi vey!!! Let me help you out here!!


(1 John 5:7) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

(Mark 1:9) And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
(Mark 1:10) And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
(Mark 1:11) And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
(Mark 1:12) And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness.


Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.



(John 16:27) For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
(John 16:28) I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.


(John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(John 1:2) The same was in the beginning with God.


These verses are interesting because they note the unity of GOD’s oneness with the distinctions of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost….
1) the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
2) I came out from God - I came forth from the Father
3) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh_17:5; “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self, with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”


(1 Corinthians 1:3) Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

(Galatians 1:1) Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead

(1 Timothy 1:2) Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

(1 John 1:3) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.


John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

That’s probably enough for now…. Sheesh the concept is ALL over the BIBLE!!!

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Then why don't they just say 'same substance' instead of God. The way I understand when God speaks of himself in the Bible, He is not calling himself a substance. ie: Isa 43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.




I agree with you that eternally begotten is an oxymoron.

John 8:42 Jesus said to them, ...“I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.

John 16:28 "I came forth from the Father, and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again, and going to the Father."

John 17:5 "And now, glorify Thou Me together with Thyself, Father, with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.

John 17:8 ...[they] truly understood that I came forth from Thee, and they believed that Thou didst send Me.

John 17:24 "Father, I desire that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am, in order that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast given Me; for Thou didst love Me before the foundation of the world.

Rom. 8:3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin……..

1 John 4:14 And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Also why would the Spirit proceeding from the Father necessitate that the Spirit is a different person than the Father instead of a manifestion of the same God.

Because he is spoke of in a personal manner… having personal functions and is given some sort of independence
(Luk 3:21) Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, (Luk 3:22) And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

(Acts 28:25) Well spake the Holy Ghost by Isaiah the prophet unto our fathers…..

"May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all" (2 Corinthians 13:14)

(1 John 5:7) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

[sola gratia]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

Let me get this around my uneducated, invalid, and illegitimate mind. Suddenly we see a trinity is in Heaven, then it is not. We see those who believe in the trinity in Heaven, despite what scriptures says? Since when do we have the right to contradict what scripture clearly says? Who do we think we are?

I am sorry. I forgot. I am not as educated as some of you are. I am not as learned as you are. I am just a castaway. I am just a man who has read the Bible. Silly me. I thought it was the final word of God. I forgot how men's opinions override the scriptures, and we can welcome all who believe in false pagan gods, so long as they call on Jesus, into eternal paradise.

I will state this in a slow and plain voice, since this is how I am considered by some. The doctrine of the trinity was not even a part of the first century church. It was an invention of a conglomerate of paganism and Christianity, influenced through Roman god worship. It was creeded and accepted as orthodox doctrine in Nice in 325. Before this, the trinity was not an accepted doctrine. Suddenly, it became accepted.

Throughout the centuries, it has been the work of those in trinity god worship to silence the Oneness believers. They have worked throughout to make our numbers dwindle. When this was accomplished, they found that this truth could not be silenced. Finally, it seems their latest weapon has worked, and worked well to weaken the once firm conviction of Oneness churches and believers to their doctrine.

Implied acceptance.

They accepted us, saying we worship the same God, just see things differently. They encouraged us to do the same. We did.

Now, we see people more than ever accepting the trinity as a valid doctrine, and refusing to condemn this belief as heresy or sin. Those who do are now 'out of touch' or 'uneducated', and are cast aside, while the spirit of ecumenicalism continues to weaken the once firm foundation of truth that has kept the Church, the true Church, for almost 2000 years now.

I say all that to say this. You may consider me and others like me invalid and uneducated because we dare to take the Bible at it's word. You have that right, and are more than welcome to cast me and others like me out. But, remember this. Religious people are the hardest to convince of their faults because they 'know' they are right. But, the truth will grow beyond religious people, and in compassion, we will continue in truth.

So, carry on.

Great you created a 5 or 6 paragraph post on the dangers of the trinity and the legitimacy of the oneness doctrine witout a single scripture! Way to go.

you list no historical references, and condemn a couple thousand years of Christianity... Gee, I am convinced Bill where do I sign up!

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

I say all that to say this. You may consider me and others like me invalid and uneducated because we dare to take the Bible at it's word.

My 'problem' is not with someone taking the Bible as authoritative. I believe that. The problem is one with you and your extreme ability to change your position every 5 minutes. That's why I consider you invalid. You cannot or choose not to think through propositions and come to a clear cut conclusion.....At least you are consistently inconsistent.

I strongly disagree with pastor Epley but I know where he stands. He is consistent.

[Brother Price]

Gee, SG, you cannot handle truth. If you want the absolute historical truth, read Marvin Arnold's Apostolic History Outline. Then, read your Bible, and see how time and again, God Himself said He was one, alone, and none beside Him.

[Brother Price]

Deal with what has been said, and let the Lord judge between me and thee by His Word. Oh, that's right. We can add to the Word as we see fit.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

Oh, that's right. We can add to the Word as we see fit.

At least you are consistent at doing that....

[Brother Price]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

So god could supernaturally protect the Bible throughout the ages, but he was sleeping the day that the trinitarians snuck in with their evil plans?

By the way, I am not educated either... I am a college dropout.

Here are the facts...

The trinitarians did not write or give us the Bible. They translated the original texts into English. They did not write the words, just translated what was there. Jesus through His power preserved His Word.

That was the truth.

And, who knows? Maybe some of the translators came to the truth, and we never heard about it.

[Ferd]

Please note, as one who has argued for the Water Spirit doctrine as the only method of salvation, I distance from what I am seeing here....

Peace to you all and may the Sweet Clean Lord Jesus Christ grant some wisdom.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Please note, as one who has argued for the Water Spirit doctrine as the only method of salvation, I distance from what I am seeing here....

Peace to you all and may the Sweet Clean Lord Jesus Christ grant some wisdom.

I'll follow your lead.....