Circumcision of the heart

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by phareztamar

Indeed, the issue is new birth. A birth that I believe is spiritual. It's always amazed me how we apostolics equate baptism to a burial throughout the scriptures...except for John 3.

water baptism doesn't have to be limited to one metaphor. romans 6 doesn't only refer to death and burial but also to newness of life and resurrection.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

water baptism doesn't have to be limited to one metaphor. romans 6 doesn't only refer to death and burial but also to newness of life and resurrection.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Esaias

When does the heart of a sinner get circumcised?

Please give a scriptural presentation supporting your answer.

Haven't read through the entire discussion, but just wanted to chime in.

Circumcision of the heart takes place when faith in the work of Jesus at Calvary takes root in the heart of one who realizes that they are a sinner, and in desperate need of a Savior.

Repentance/faith is central to circumcision of the heart. After being buried with him in baptism, through faith we believe that Jesus nailed our sins to the cross, and now we have put off the sins of the flesh to walk in newness of life. This is the circumcision of the heart.

I think the best reference to how and when circumcision is to take place in the heart of a believer is in this passage:

Col. 2:11-14
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

water baptism doesn't have to be limited to one metaphor. romans 6 doesn't only refer to death and burial but also to newness of life and resurrection.

I think overemphasis of Acts 2:38 under every rock and leaf caused people to think repentance = death, baptism=burial and Spirit baptism=resurrection. It just ain't so.

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by phareztamar

At the moment you receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost, is when you are born again.

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Haven't read through the entire discussion, but just wanted to chime in.

Circumcision of the heart takes place when faith in the work of Jesus at Calvary takes root in the heart of one who realizes that they are a sinner, and in desperate need of a Savior.

Repentance/faith is central to circumcision of the heart. After being buried with him in baptism, through faith we believe that Jesus nailed our sins to the cross, and now we have put off the sins of the flesh to walk in newness of life. This is the circumcision of the heart.

I think the best reference to how and when circumcision is to take place in the heart of a believer is in this passage:

Col. 2:11-14
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Yes and Yes.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by phareztamar

No, it's not. At the moment you receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost, is when you are born again.

I agree , but I also agree with Mike. God does not give someone the new birth normatively until they have died to self in the waters of baptism,

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I agree , but I also agree with Mike. God does not give someone the new birth normatively until they have died to self in the waters of baptism,

I would not say baptism is death to self, though. It Is death to sin. Death to self is ongoing all our lives.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I would not say baptism is death to self, though. It Is death to sin. Death to self is ongoing all our lives.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Amen!

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I would not say baptism is death to self, though. It Is death to sin. Death to self is ongoing all our lives.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I see them as synonymous.

We surrender to the Lordship of Christ in baptism, thus renouncing the lordship of sin and self. But indeed dying to self must continue daily until we see him.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I see them as synonymous.

We surrender to the Lordship of Christ in baptism, thus renouncing the lordship of sin and self. But indeed dying to self must continue daily until we see him.

I agree it is renouncing lordship of sin and self. But, still, we do not die once indeed to self as we do to sin in baptism.