We now have more Oneness Pentecostal organizations on the scene. We now have people looking at the purpose of organizations (not as many as I would hope, but it is there...)
All the people were in one place, and God wanted them to move on and out, so he caused a scandal and a rift and they moved on and out, and the rest is history (speaking of Babel).
All the church was in Jerusalem. God wanted them to move on and out. So He allowed persecution to get them off their butts and get with it.
Perhaps God doesn't want one 'monolithic mothership' among Oneness Pentecostals.
How many Baptist orgs are there? tons. And are not Baptist churches ubiquitous across the land?
Just wondering out loud here.
It's interesting that you can become a member of any Baptist Church and not know any of the members in the various churches across the city. That is never true in Pentecost.
When Pastor Bennet died, the church was rocked. As soon as he passed, people started lining up to his heir as he had none. Well all the sudden this lady steps forward with the will and says she is his wife. LOL.
Total train wreck. No one saw it comeing (except my grandfather who was already dead).
Let me tell you that it was pure pandimonium. and the church was already filled with factions and after that it just got worse.
They couldnt come to any kind of agreement on who the next pastor would be.
Papa George wen there as interum to handle the transition. Ive already talked about his gentlness and kindness. But there was iron in the man too!
After several preachers were tried out, they would vote and the vote would be split. one side would find out what the other was doing, and they would vote against that side.
Papa George got tired of it. He brought in David Hennigan and then when he called the vote, he told them the vote would be held the morning after an all night prayer meeting. He gave them the time to be at the church the night before, and he told them the doors would be locked at a certain point. Anyone not in the building when the doors were locked would not vote! LOL
He also walked around the prayer meeting and made sure everyone was praying. Ive heard (cannot verify) that he also threatend those that were there but not praying that they wouldnt be allowed to vote!
Pastor Hennigan won the election with a BIG majority. He went on to be a fanstastic pastor and the church was greatly blessed.
I remember that happening when Bro Bennett died, Ferd. Did anybody ever learn why he wanted his marriage to be kept secret?
The UPCI has gone thru a pretty difficult streatch but seriously it is not all doom and gloom.
The guys that were in charge during the worst of it are dead and gone. As some others have pointed out, the hard liners have left or are leaving. The rebelrousers started a wrestling federation to beat people up in and the liberals are/have left as well.
What is left is an organization that is smaller for sure but in some ways more moderate.
What is really odd to me is that all this talk has come up right now before this particular GC in which the UPCI HAS ON THE TABLE A MOTION TO REMOVE ANY REFERENCE TO TELEVISION FROM THE MANUAL!
serously people, we are talking about how awful the UPCI is today...how conservative it is...TODAY.... right when the org is making moves to moderate?
its almost like the guys who have been "claiming" they want change really are just trying to sabatoge. What do they really want? implosion?
Yes it is becoming moderate. Sadly though for many it's still too conservative
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Prax, you know I am not asking 'how can we find an opportunity to snub others?'
The fact is there are two different issues that went on in the UPC and one of them was in fact about snubbing others for any slight divergence in doctrine.
I witness it here where a former UPC in a neighboring city would never fellowship with us when the were UPC. Their pastor regularly throttled our church and pastor to his congregation.
We preached the whole 3 stepper ball of wax with standards. That did not matter as the pastor still found something he did not like about us and my pastor.
Yet 2 groups met and agreed to form an organization despite 1 group being 3 step and the other 1. They agreed NOT to contend for their differences.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Many left because they did not want the UPCI to control them. They wanted freedom from the organizations rules....etc. The irony is that even though they left.....the organization still controls them.....they are driven by their disdain for the machine and the mechanics who maintain it......it controls their thoughts, actions, and direction......let it go and move on.....if not the very thing you are trying to destroy will destroy you.
In the end, when you are dead, will they be able to say you accomplished great things for the cause of Christ, or will they say he/she sure spent a lot of time hashing/rehashing the org they used to be in.
Hmm, which ones? Many that left and became independent have more rules than an Islamic nation under Sharia law
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
They didn't see this coming because they never thought the day would come when a bunch Jesus-Name Pentecostals would choose to devour each other instead of choosing to love and encourage each other.
There wasn't a "growing doctrinal difference" between the two camps. There was a growing desire to no longer be united and people have been using all sorts of religious excuses to justify their sinful attitudes towards people that for YEARS were considered to be their brothers and sisters in the Lord.
See that's the point. They CHOOSE to divide and reform, divide and reform. Argue about doctrinal differences. Force other churches to confirm to THEIR standard...that is why the OP movement is anemic. They lost site of why we organized and focused instead of why we shouldn't
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
You say there wasn't a 'growing doctrinal difference between the two camps' but I can see it plain as day. AFF is in fact a sort of microcosm of that schism.
If two groups differ on the nature and mechanisms of salvation, how can they stay in unity for long?
On the other hand, I do find it interesting that people who suppoedly are willing to 'agree to disagree' on the subject of salvation are willing to to split over the subject of television.
the root of both systems is faith.
However one emphasizes obedience in order to become saved, to the Acts 2:38/tongues teaching and the other BECAUSE we are saved and saved people are obedient. It's a nuance but both believed in the same message but just not when and how salvation occurs
The fact is the 1 steppers for a long time had no problem with others not agreeing with them. They did not try to change the rest of the orgs through political take overs. The disagreement came from the 3 steppers.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Linear Mode
