Why do YOU believe the Bible?

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Wow! This is a terrific thread! It's the reason I've come out of hiding (lurking). This question has been on my mind and heart a lot, lately, and there's a lot of good stuff to read, here.

Seems to me that, when we say we believe that the Bible is God's Word, inspired, infallible, and so on, what we are really doing is putting a great deal of trust in men. Namely, the men who, centuries ago, decided on the canon -- which ancient writings were inpsired, which were not.

Were those men themselves inspired by God? Were their intentions pure? Were they 100% correct in their choices? Are all 66 books, no more and no less, the very books that God Himself intended to be the "Bible"?

Now, it could be that our spirit (or the Holy Spirit) somehow confirms in our hearts that the Bible is true. That's fine for those for whom this happens, I suppose. And it's fortunate for the ones whose experience also confirms the truth of such scriptures that, e.g., promise miracles and healings, and so on. But what about the rest of humanity? Some will read the Bible and react negatively. Some things in scripture don't ring true, to them. They see promises there that aren't (in their experience) kept! Is it simply carnality and a hard heart? Is it lack of faith? Would only an evil man read the Bible and not immediately (or eventually) say, "Aha! Yes, this must be God's word!"?

It IS a good thread. One of the reasons I love RD so much is because he always makes me "think". Gives me a brain cramp sometimes but it's worth the trouble. Hehe.

I think the bottom line is that man must CHOOSE to believe. It comes down to choice.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Felicity

It IS a good thread. One of the reasons I love RD so much is because he always makes me "think". Gives me a brain cramp sometimes but it's worth the trouble. Hehe.

I think the bottom line is that man must CHOOSE to believe. It comes down to choice.

Felicity,

You should have been on that radio show! Your listing of reasons for the Bible being true is more convincing. IMO

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

That's not the only reason for apologetics.

Expound a little on this Dave will you please?

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Felicity,

You should have been on that radio show! Your listing of reasons for the Bible being true is more convincing. IMO

Thanks Mizpeh! That's kind of you to say.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

So objective Truth is unknowable and at least unverifiable?

See you when you get back.

I know that there are historical records, but these records have been preserved by the "fathers", so these would not be objective and knowable? There are geological records, but even these have in some cases seemed to have been fakes. I do believe there exist a preponderance of evidence, such as how could a book by so many authors have so much coherence?

However can we use the Bible itself to prove that it is accurate, are there undeniable proofs? Seems I have read of things that to believers would be undeniable?

Ultimately it becomes faith, Abraham believed God because of his experience, Paul believed because of the Damascus road experience, the apostles believed because of their experiences as they walked with Jesus. I believe because of my experience, the truth is confirmed thru prayer and the operation of the Spirit in my life and the lives of those around me. I understand that this would not be objective to the skeptic.

Then there are those that want to argue that the Bible is inerrant, every word, every sentence etc, etc! To which I would ask which version or translation? Of course it is in its original language, but where would I get one of those? So, I accept that the Bible gives us an accurate revelation of God, when accurately interpreted as revealed by the Holy Spirit.

Thanks, Dave for this challenging thread, these are just my thoughts that your questions have provoked.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

RD,

I listened to the 3 ministers speak on the topic of Why do I believe the Bible is true and found nothing spectacular or convincing outside of what I already know.

They used the historical evidence found in the NT itself of names, places, and times to try to prove the inclusion of these makes the word of God true.

The historical empty tomb. They state people had seen Jesus after he was resurrected and over 500 at one time were eyewitnesses. But there are always skeptics and even this I believe would not cause a person to believe the Bible was true. I know I would have said, "So what!" if this was presented to me when I was an atheist.

I was hoping for something profound but they didn't bring forth anything that I could use to try to convince my son. I was disappointed. The wisdom of man in trying to prove the truth of the Bible is useless without the Spirit of God and the word of God moving upon a heart that God in his wisdom has brought to a place of willingness to listen.

I never said they had the answers. The problem was posed by them. I disagree with the evidential/classical school of apologetics. If you want resources try "Always Ready" by Greg Bahnsen and "Total Truth" by Nancy Pearcy. These will take 'work' and study. They deal with concepts(if there are such things) and henceforth are difficult to work with but it is worth it.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Expound a little on this Dave will you please?

For one thing, apologetics is sometimes used to shut the mouths of the gainsayers. Also, it should always be used to the glory of God. We must remember that 'proof' is not 'persuasion' and that God opens the heart.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by OGIA

"With pretty good certainty" is for those who ask, not to convince me. Whatever I can't prove to myself by seeing, hearing, tasting, touching or smelling, I accept by faith. Now, you? You can either accept that Jesus Christ and Shakespeare lived or you don't have to. I believe they both did through intellectualism, but I also, and more profoundly, believe the Lord did because of the faith He's given me to believe His word. Grace comes into play, too.

So, no, RD, I cannot answer your query to your satisfaction (even if you are playing devil's advocate). The Lord couldn't everyone who asked Him, either. We all will have to die to prove what we believe....even the atheist and agnostic.

Our senses are unreliable at best. They are always fooling us. 2 people seeing the same thing see it two different ways. We ALL come to the table with our own set of glasses through which we 'see' the world. The 'evidence' is always interpreted.

You seem to pit intellect against faith as if they are antithetical. I propose that you can't have any faith without an object and reason for faith. Otherwise we call that insanity. Even Peter states that we're to be able to give an apologetic for the 'hope' we have.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by crakjak

I know that there are historical records, but these records have been preserved by the "fathers", so these would not be objective and knowable? There are geological records, but even these have in some cases seemed to have been fakes. I do believe there exist a preponderance of evidence, such as how could a book by so many authors have so much coherence?

However can we use the Bible itself to prove that it is accurate, are there undeniable proofs? Seems I have read of things that to believers would be undeniable?

Ultimately it becomes faith, Abraham believed God because of his experience, Paul believed because of the Damascus road experience, the apostles believed because of their experiences as they walked with Jesus. I believe because of my experience, the truth is confirmed thru prayer and the operation of the Spirit in my life and the lives of those around me. I understand that this would not be objective to the skeptic.

Then there are those that want to argue that the Bible is inerrant, every word, every sentence etc, etc! To which I would ask which version or translation? Of course it is in its original language, but where would I get one of those? So, I accept that the Bible gives us an accurate revelation of God, when accurately interpreted as revealed by the Holy Spirit.

Thanks, Dave for this challenging thread, these are just my thoughts that your questions have provoked.

Actually, as I stated in a previous post, every experience we have is interpreted. Abraham and Paul had experiences that in and of themselves could have gone either way but through their presuppositions they interpreted the dreams the way God ordained.

One of the main problems I have with empirical apologetics is that it leaves the sinner to interpret the facts. Besides that, philosophically they are just bad arguments. Hume and Russell showed that.

In the examination of the Christian worldview we find that it and it alone is able to consistently show a non-arbitrary, logical, and objective view of life and is the only one that can provide answers that aren't illogical and arbitrary. Unless we start with the Word of God as our axiom we cannot logically explain anything else.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Wow! This is a terrific thread! It's the reason I've come out of hiding (lurking). This question has been on my mind and heart a lot, lately, and there's a lot of good stuff to read, here.

Seems to me that, when we say we believe that the Bible is God's Word, inspired, infallible, and so on, what we are really doing is putting a great deal of trust in men. Namely, the men who, centuries ago, decided on the canon -- which ancient writings were inpsired, which were not.

Were those men themselves inspired by God? Were their intentions pure? Were they 100% correct in their choices? Are all 66 books, no more and no less, the very books that God Himself intended to be the "Bible"?

Now, it could be that our spirit (or the Holy Spirit) somehow confirms in our hearts that the Bible is true. That's fine for those for whom this happens, I suppose. And it's fortunate for the ones whose experience also confirms the truth of such scriptures that, e.g., promise miracles and healings, and so on. But what about the rest of humanity? Some will read the Bible and react negatively. Some things in scripture don't ring true, to them. They see promises there that aren't (in their experience) kept! Is it simply carnality and a hard heart? Is it lack of faith? Would only an evil man read the Bible and not immediately (or eventually) say, "Aha! Yes, this must be God's word!"?

As I've stated in other posts we must start at the correct point and realize that intellectual neutrality is a myth. We all have our view about reality. Only when we presuppose the Christian worldview can we make sense of the world around us and are able to give an account for life that is not arbitrary, inconsistent, or illogical.