What is a One Stepper?!

[Brother Price]

Originally Posted by Rico

Brother, it would be nice if people wouldn't base so much of their doctrinal beliefs on what they feel. I have feelings on certain issues too, but if those feelings don't line up with the Bible, then my feelings are leading me in a doctrinally wrong direction.

We are born of the water at birth, and the Spirit at conversion. Your definition of this Rico is off base. If His Spirit does not dwell in a soul at repentance, then how come so many who do not get the baptism live a better life than most Apostolics who do?

Your logic is faulty and flawed at best. You would do good to find time to visit MOW, and you and him sit and talk about these issues openly and honestly.

[Brother Price]

Originally Posted by Rico

The HG is not a gift for everyone. It is only for those who have chosen to follow God's plan of salvation. When is the last time you met someone who had the HG that hadn't at least repented?

Will God dwell in an unclean vessel? How then can someone have the baptism when there is sin in their life, Rico? If their sins are forgiven, that is the only prerequisite to receive the baptism. And, if this is so, how then are souls receiving the baptism prior to water baptism.

The three step plan has some major holes in it.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I don't believe you need the baptism in the HG to get to heaven. I DO believe that a person receives a measure of the spirit at conversion. Either they do, or they are going to hell in spite of their conversion. There's that paradigm thing again. D:

Indeed, you do believe in this "measure of the Spirit" thing. Finally you've decided to come out plainly and say that.

So now, please, Man of Word, show us from the Word where the Bible teaches this "measure of the Spirit" doctrine.

I'm pretty familar with the doctrine, so I am certainly looking forward to you responding on this. And no side-stepping the question , please brother. We eagerly await your response.

Originally Posted by Rico

Brother, it would be nice if people wouldn't base so much of their doctrinal beliefs on what they feel. I have feelings on certain issues too, but if those feelings don't line up with the Bible, then my feelings are leading me in a doctrinally wrong direction.

Rico, I see you you asked him for scripture that says a person receives a measure of the Spirit at conversion,before the baptism/infilling of the Holy Spirit. Dont hold your breath. There is no biblical basis for that, and I bet he cant give you any solid scriptures on that. That area is one of the biggest holes in the 1-stepper doctrine, and it seems like they just have this huge blind spot when it comes to that.

Many 1-steppers would just "feel better about it" if they could feel that someone who never received the Holy Ghost is still going to heaven... which is why you see that sentiment expressed so often on their posts around here. The thing is...they start with a particular sentiment, and have built their theology around that feeling, rather than simply putting personal feelings aside and letting the Word just say what it says.

Originally Posted by Brother Price

We are born of the water at birth, and the Spirit at conversion. Your definition of this Rico is off base. If His Spirit does not dwell in a soul at repentance, then how come so many who do not get the baptism live a better life than most Apostolics who do?

I get your question. But forget human feelings and human logic here for a moment. Simply...please show us the scriptures that say His Spirit comes and dwells in us at repentance, as an exprerience prior to the baptism of the Holy Spirit. You 1-steppers have never been able to show us any such scriptures.

We eagerly await your response, sir.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

Will God dwell in an unclean vessel? How then can someone have the baptism when there is sin in their life, Rico? If their sins are forgiven, that is the only prerequisite to receive the baptism. And, if this is so, how then are souls receiving the baptism prior to water baptism.

The three step plan has some major holes in it.

No holes, sir. No contradiction.

We all know someone can receive the Holy Ghost afer repentance. We see it plainly in Acts 10. Nobody here is disputing that.

And many Trinitarians who got they holy Ghost later came to the revelation and got baptized in Jesus name afterward. Baptism is still a biblical command, and there is still only one way for it to be done for it it be scripturally correct. They are not in complete obedience to God's word if they have not been baptzed into His name, no matter how much they speak in tongues.

They are forgiven by the grace of God before baptism, and thus are able to recive the Holy Ghost after they repent. But they are still required to be baptized in Jesus' name.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

No holes, sir. No contradiction.

We all know someone can receive the Holy Ghost afer repentance. We see it plainly in Acts 10. Nobody here is disputing that.

And many Trinitarians who got they holy Ghost later came to the revelation and got baptized in Jesus name afterward. Baptism is still a biblical command, and there is still only one way for it to be done for it it be scripturally correct. They are not in complete obedience to God's word if they have not been baptzed into His name, no matter how much they speak in tongues.

They are forgiven by the grace of God before baptism, and thus are able to recive the Holy Ghost after they repent. But they are still required to be baptized in Jesus' name.

Right, He pours wine into a new vessel. Some have prepared their vessel before baptism and some after.

I was praying with a woman that didn't seem to be able to receive the Holy Ghost no matter how much she wanted it.

I asked the Lord what was this about? He said, "I can't pour new wine into an old vessel."

We don't center enough on "true" repentance today!!! IMO!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I don't believe you need the baptism in the HG to get to heaven. I DO believe that a person receives a measure of the spirit at conversion. Either they do, or they are going to hell in spite of their conversion. There's that paradigm thing again. D:

I would like you to explain the "measure of the spirit at conversion". I don't see that in scripture. Could you expound a little more on this? TIA!!!

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

They are forgiven by the grace of God before baptism, and thus are able to recive the Holy Ghost after they repent. But they are still required to be baptized in Jesus' name.

TR, you've opened up another can of worms with that statement! But maybe you can explain to me the difference in remission of sins at water baptism and forgiveness sins at repentance. If remission means forgiveness, why do we need to be forgiven twice?

I think someone can be filled with the Spirit whose sins have not been remitted (circumcised/blotted out/forgiven/washed) by the Spirit at water baptism in Jesus name because once they have repented they are no longer an ACTIVE sinner. Meaning they have turned from their sinful ways and are now pursuing what is right in God's eyes. That change of heart along with the faith in Christ that led to that change of heart is enough of a reason for God to fill someone with His Spirit.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Indeed, you do believe in this "measure of the Spirit" thing. Finally you've decided to come out plainly and say that.

So now, please, Man of Word, show us from the Word where the Bible teaches this "measure of the Spirit" doctrine.

I'm pretty familar with the doctrine, so I am certainly looking forward to you responding on this. And no side-stepping the question , please brother. We eagerly await your response.



Rico, I see you you asked him for scripture that says a person receives a measure of the Spirit at conversion,before the baptism/infilling of the Holy Spirit. Dont hold your breath. There is no biblical basis for that, and I bet he cant give you any solid scriptures on that. That area is one of the biggest holes in the 1-stepper doctrine, and it seems like they just have this huge blind spot when it comes to that.

Many 1-steppers would just "feel better about it" if they could feel that someone who never received the Holy Ghost is still going to heaven... which is why you see that sentiment expressed so often on their posts around here. The thing is...they start with a particular sentiment, and have built their theology around that feeling, rather than simply putting personal feelings aside and letting the Word just say what it says.


I get your question. But forget human feelings and human logic here for a moment. Simply...please show us the scriptures that say His Spirit comes and dwells in us at repentance, as an exprerience prior to the baptism of the Holy Spirit. You 1-steppers have never been able to show us any such scriptures.

We eagerly await your response, sir.

You need to start reading from here on the other thread. I don't want to duplicate it.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...postcount=2245


It pretty much explains where this all comes down to.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I would like you to explain the "measure of the spirit at conversion". I don't see that in scripture. Could you expound a little more on this? TIA!!!

Yep, I've never heard an explanation either and I've asked a number of times in the past. You want to convert someone to agree with one step thinking, you have your chance with a cogent scriptural answer to that question.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

You need to start reading from here on the other thread. I don't want to duplicate it.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...postcount=2245


It pretty much explains where this all comes down to.

These two threads should be merged.