Question about Acts 2:38: What about the martyrs?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Those who don't believe Jesus bid us to judge anyone, please explain what He meant when he said, "judge righteous judgment." Can people even read any more?

Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

i think it is left ambiguous on purpose. One might naturally make a personal judgement, thinking "that's not for me," or one might feel justified with extending that to condemnation, etc. One can make judgements from bigotry, based upon societal or our peers preconceptions, or based upon fruit. Wouldn't mind hearing some other answers.

and please don't stay too mad about the clothing condemnation, there; i was trying to make a point.
I'm sure it's a total coincidence that everyone thinks funeral colors are cool

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The guy judging us as lost because we judge someone as lost... ha too funny.
lol

well, it can be argued that i was condemning you, and that you were already judged...but really, i was just trying to hold a mirror up for comparison. I don't think anyone here means to be evil, as i have said. All have sinned, and come short of glory. We are swimming in sin, all of us--thinking we are better than Muslims is just one of the more grievous ones.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, be prepared to be "righteously judged," then...think I'll stick with this one, thanks.

nice outfit, btw, Mike--you were at a funeral, i take it...

"8Let your garments be always white..."

see that it is natural to want to be in the position of "judge," and your interpretation is self serving. Righteous judgement is judging for yourself, not others.

Now that wasn't very nice.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Now that wasn't very nice.

When people can't "win" by using non sequiturs and begging the question and equivocation and sheer repetition of unproven (and disproven) claims they usually wind up at the ad hominem. It's a predictable course, kind of like watching an untreated cold become a flu-like condition, then progressing to walking pneumonia, pleurisy, and pulmonary edema. (And the bottle of powdered ascorbic acid sits on the shelf unused...)

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

When people can't "win" by using non sequiturs and begging the question and equivocation and sheer repetition of unproven (and disproven) claims they usually wind up at the ad hominem. It's a predictable course, kind of like watching an untreated cold become a flu-like condition, then progressing to walking pneumonia, pleurisy, and pulmonary edema. (And the bottle of powdered ascorbic acid sits on the shelf unused...)

[houston]

Shazeep,

Do you believe that Quran is the word of God?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Esaias

When people can't "win" by using non sequiturs and begging the question and equivocation and sheer repetition of unproven (and disproven) claims they usually wind up at the ad hominem. It's a predictable course, kind of like watching an untreated cold become a flu-like condition, then progressing to walking pneumonia, pleurisy, and pulmonary edema. (And the bottle of powdered ascorbic acid sits on the shelf unused...)

ya, ok. i was giving an example of "righteous judgement," backed up by Scripture; you guys should have loved it. Esaias, i am not even trying to convince you not to hold the lofty opinion of yourself that you do, so high that All Muslims Are Lost (and not just Muslims, of course), and Most Christians Are Wrong, Said in All Humility Praise Jesus. I am here to witness that i grew up holding the opinion, and it comes from false pride that has been carefully cultivated in us from birth, and if one judges, they will be judged.

you have already admitted that judging correctly involves witnessing the fruit, so if you then go on to contradict that in practice, my judgement is "that's not for me." We have plenty Scripture that describes good fruit--borders increasing, at peace, kids healthy, old people dying in their sleep, crops healthy and abundant, etc., and if you wanna run a little spreadsheet comparo we can do that, too--but i was trying to avoid getting people depressed on the matter. So whatever.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by houston

Shazeep,

Do you believe that Quran is the word of God?

i don't believe that i have to have an opinion there, and i honestly don't have one. What have i to do with judging outsiders? Let God judge them. What i believe is that i am among people who have the Word, yet argue against it. We have plenty of wood in our own eyes, no need to go searching the other side of the planet.

We have a whole nation that pretty much believes one comes to Christ and is "saved" by making some verbal declarations in a building, and then trying to adhere to some laws, after getting baptized--maybe a couple of times. We have lawyers in denial of Love Your Neighbor for 50 pages who somehow think they have like "won" the conversation or something.

So I'll repeat that the early Church did not even have those passages meant for self application that you use to condemn, and "grace was sufficient for them." Only those who seek power and status use Scripture as a weapon. This is not humility. It is safe to assume that anyone you meet is lost, no matter what they claim. All have sinned and come short of God.

We just have too many passages that indicate that those being oppressed, or who don't verbally agree (First Son) or who are considered despised are accepted by God, for anyone to be claiming "They are obviously all lost because these verses right here."

[shazeep]

9“The LORD of Hosts says this: Make fair decisions (righteous judgement).f Show faithful love and compassiong to one another. 10Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the foreigner or the poor,h and do not plot evil in your hearts against one another.i 11But they refused to pay attentionj and turned a stubborn shoulder; they closed their ears so they could not hear.k 12They made their hearts like a rock

[shazeep]

i mean let's get real, "All Muslims Are Lost" is no different from "Black people are inferior," "Russians are Commies," or "Oriental people don't have souls." It is simply the acceptable way to be a bigot, which satan will take full advantage of, so that you will have an enemy other than him to focus on. Believe what you want; have faith in what you believe, tho, because it will define you.